Which reminds me.
....Gotta love Siouxsie Sioux, essentially the ultimate Cleopatra impersonator at first glance. But then you look closely and see that she looks almost like a young Cherokee woman with those coon eyes and hawk nose...And then you see that hair, like a fucking lion's mane. I loved all those elements she combined. Funny how that one sub-conversation triggered my nostalgic boner for Siouxsie again. I needed that. ha.

Siouxsie Boners for all!

^_^

I agree, it is pervasive from the dawn of goth even theda barra had arabesque,
and dark expressionist eyes.and the victorians had mummy unravelling parties, where they beleived they were unleashing spirits. it has always been a source of enchantment for thousands of years, for the darkly inclined or otherwise fascinated.

sin job: I am very happy this has given you a boner,please whack it and release some of that tension. I believe sex therapy aromatherapy or just therapy would really help, but I'm still fond of you.....

:p

To me anyone under 19/20 is still a baby, I'm such an old soul.

Ben Lahnger's right, none of the darker-skinned/black/colored/African America, whatever you want to call them Goths have answered the question posted about whether they have received different treatment from "non-black Goths" I will admit that I was distracted from that issue by all the other topics that were raised as well as the topic of the threads title, which is what drew my attention.

I've actually had more problems with non-Gothic Blacks than I've had with "non-black Goths" especially in the area where I live, in the city no one really cares. The people in my neighborhood seem to believe that I'm betraying the African American race by embracing a subculture and being a part of a subculture that they have decided that only white people partake in. I've had to live with being called an Oreo, and having people ask me if I hate myself and other very offensive questions because of it. But this has all been by other Black people, all other people whether they are Goth or not have been fascinated and thrilled that I'm not just another young Black/ghetto stereotype. One girl actually told me that she though the coolest Goths were those of a darker skin tone cause "it's like your so Goth even your skin is dark". So I've actually only had issues with other Blacks over me being a part of this subculture.

Haha thanks, but you'll be relieved to know the need to beat it has been long gone, thanks to a healthy sexual relationship. Siouxsie still has a place in my heart though. I mean, mah girl leaves for two hours and look what happens.

To recap, Afro-American Goths don't look Goth, so looking across a crowd they feel, even though Goth themselves and if more than two races check box on the form and list the nationalities.

Nah, wasn't drunk then. Sorry.

Thank you, Hearts_Purple :) Though I really meant it more about his personal style. I will have to ask you more about Rivet style sometime in the fashion thread, I don't know much about it.

Thank you, Heretic! I've truncated the quote a bit as your post was very thorough, but I mean thank you for all of it. I have a friend (though not goth) who is very into art deco as well, you don't see it incorporated into goth a lot, it's very unique! Brings to mind images of the Black Dahlia. Love that picture at the bat-house by the way, lookin' pretty slick!

Personally, I think you look plenty goth. :) I can just picture your frock coat and vest over the sort of 'corporate goth' look you've got going with the button down shirt and tie, I bet it looks pretty good. I'm also a fan of dressing for the weather, black fleece and sweaters are a favorite when I go up north.

question to heretic:

does it bother you that goth has appropriated egyptian imagery and does it bother you that their is an obsession with pale skin, when many consider it the ideal. I feel like the pale skin thing is more about looking dead than a racial ideal. but I just wanted to see your opinion!

Does it taste just like raisins?

Then you're just crazy. =)

seems to be an unequivical sex invite to me. Last woman to tell me to jack off was topless and under me. ahh young love

Yeah, it's probably that and not the fact that you were raised to be a bigot.

Way to pink elephant it.

And I'm taken, but it's sweet. Hah.

Shut up, woman, get on mah horse!

:D

You bring the bridle, I'll bring the spurs

This sounds very much like something exciting to be apart of. :D

I'm beginning to believe you have the right of it. I had expected more people to join the conversation and contribute their thoughts. The relative silence leads me to believe that I may have been overly optimistic.

I have not simply been jousting with you and talking about my fashion sense. I directly answered the question of "how to approach" a Black Goth, I have included comments on how I have been perceived by others both within and outside of the culture. Onxybat asked the question, and I have related an opinion based on real-world experience. That experience runs the gamut, from clueless babygoths to cliquish gother-than-thou poseurs to eldergoths.

It is in the possibility of broadening the topic along the points raised by the original questions that I felt value might yet be found here. THAT was the point I raised with you. Has it been made? Contrary to what you have said, I believe it has. Has the broadening I proposed actually occurred? It might yet happen, but I am increasingly pessimistic that it will.


Is it really necessary to post a thesis statement when broadening a topic? Would that not be the definition of what you called 'threadjacking'? Isn't it enough to post an opinion on the response I and others have made to this thread? Isn't THAT the definition of organic growth in a discussion?

*sigh*

Never mind. I'd rather talk about the topic at hand than go back and forth in an off-topic argument over the legitimacy of the topic. If you actually have an opinion on anything I or anyone else in this thread has posted regarding African American Goths, I'd love to read your thoughts. As for the rest, you have your opinion and I have mine. If you are willing, we can agree to disagree and put a moratorium on the off-topic discussion.


- Heretic

Actually, Ben would be incorrect. The distraction caused by all the off-topic posts in this thread would explains why you missed my answer to that very question. It's there, if you're interested in having a look.

As it happens, I lucked out. I grew up in Minneapolis, land of Prince. As a result, I never had a problem like that in this region of the country. If I got a little eccentric with my clothing, people would just put it down to the local music scene and not even look twice at me, much less call me out.

I have noticed, though, that things changed here in the 90s with the advent of Gangsta Rap and a renewed emphasis on cultural identity. Younger African Americans who are a bit more alternative than the average seem to take a lot more flak these days over their choices in music and clothing than I did.

I will have to admit that while I have run into this same thing, a large portion of that attitude has to do with 'color blindness', or the ability some people have to ignore, rather than embrace, the fact that I happen to be an African American. By ignoring my cultural background, there are numerous things people have done or said to me in the name of proving how accepting they are of others that have been ignorant at best, and insulting at worst. For example, constant comments like the one you posted, in which my skin color features in what they have to say, have for me gotten very, very old.


- Heretic

Contrary to that sweeping generalization, I believe I look just fine. Your personal opinion may differ, but you are sadly mistaken if you truly are attempting to paint such a narrow-minded, subjective opinion as a universal truth.

Um....huh? You'll have to clarify that one.


- Heretic

Catch is a long time troll, your eyes roll over her posts after a while.

Thank you, Allyssa. :)

Actually, I appreciate it. There are numerous examples of African culture that pop up in the Gothic subculture. For example, I've seen Egyptian, Vodun (Voodoo), and Islamic Spanish (see: Al-Andalus) imagery in the Gothic subculture for years. I see it as the subculture taking an inclusive approach to a universal view of the human condition. The Victorian mourning clothing specific to Anglo-Saxon England, and the rock music-influenced fashion of the late 1970s, aren't the only way to express a Gothic sensibility.

The pale skin thing goes hand in hand with the the Victorian thing. Having extra pale skin is how people from that time period are depicted in painting and early photographs. For those striving (consciously or unconsciously) to attain the Victorian look, it is understandable that they would put a premium on pale skin.

For those who are more concerned with the corpse or vampire bend to the subculture, I believe your observation is correct.

Personally, I subscribe to a more universal, philosophical approach to the subculture. I believe being a Goth is more than the clothes you wear and the music you listen to; it is a way of looking at the world and interpreting the human condition, one that transcends minor things like make-up. As a result, I have no issue with those who get wrapped up in that sort of thing; it is irrelevant to what I see as 'Gothic'.

Not a problem; I'm happy to oblige.


- Heretic

Ah.

*searches for 'ignore' button*


- Heretic