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Old 05-18-2006, 10:41 PM   #32
Loy
 
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 408
EE-(sorry about the wait, BTW)

1.A fair trial. Well, that part's questionable, and it's a question that'll be answered by higher courts. See, the way this system works (or should work.....the problem is that, for the most part, it doesn't. Hence why we have a hierarchy of judicial circuits, and why juries are allowed to find laws unconstitutional....yep, THIS is the reason judges and lawyers and politicians want to get rid of the jury system in this country altogether) is that after the trial is over, if the defendant can make a cogent and substantial argument that he/she did NOT recieve a fair trial to a higher circuit, then the circuit will make a call that the defendant has to have a new trial.

Now as I said, this system doesn't work as well as it should. You think that once someone is conviceted of being guilty, they're guilty and there's no reason to reopen the case. Yet how many innocent people are in prison right now, and will probably never have a retrial? How many are on death row? Now, I'm not talking about people who claim innocence, I'm speaking of people who ARE innocent, but because of circumstances that worked against them, were railroaded into prison. The New York Times (I know, damned bastion of "liberalism"....whatever the hell that means) did a a study of 328 cases (199 of these were murder charges) where the defendant was EXONERATED by evidence that hadn't been allowed in court for one reason or another. Most of these guys had been in prison for over 10 years before the exonerations came. Now I'm sure you're gonna play the numbers game here ("it's only 328 people"), however I'd like to point out that the only reason these people got any attention at all is because they were able to get enough money to hire outside investigators to look into the cases.....in other words, the state itself fucked up on the job. What else this points out is "how many more innocent people are in prison right now, but don't have the resources to reopen their convictions?". (another study worthy of interest, http://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo...ions-in-us.pdf ). And just to cut through the BS that playing the numbers game tends to bring up-ONE innocent person who spends ANY time in prison is too much. If the logic or morality of this statement is confusing, I have no idea what to say except READ THE GOD-DAMNED CONSTITUTION.

Now is he manipulating our system against us? Maybe, maybe not. My gut says "yes", but since I'm not a justice reading over the court documents, I can't make that call. And even if he is, I'm sorry, but I'm willing to allow a few bad apples try manipulating our system if the alternative is getting rid of the system itself. See, on a really basic level, getting rid of the system we have set up is called "treasonous". And as many problems as I have with the justice system as a whole, and even with this country as a whole, I'm also unwilling to decimate those aspects of our country that make us American. As I pointed out, we're not quite yet a "culture" (and no, it's not the French or the Prussians who say this. It's sociologists who say this. As I said, we're still in the stage where we rely on outside cultures and indiginous outsider groups to help our over-"culture" thrive, grow, and survive. Maybe in a 100 years....I'd say sooner, but who knows.....we'll develop as a self-sustaining culture with it's very own indiginous traits. This isn't elitism, it's just understanding of sociology, and not letting facts fuck me up emotionally) to have anything truly "American" outside of our laws, and once we decide to rid ourselves of those very laws and the ideals they embrace, we at once lose any right to call ourselves "American". Simple as that.

As for the voting of Bush thing, all I'm saying is attacking one person for one action, then putting another person guilty of similar actions into power is disingenuous and slightly hypocritical. I know your dislike of politicians (and I do love your attacks on the religious nutcases that populate the Republican side of the line), but I'm just saying "step back, and re-examine your statements in comparison with the facts".

And as far as the pussification of america is concerned, I think trying to make all citizens conform to an ideal that's both unrealistic and anti-American, along with this idea that because we're Americans, we have every right to be the assholes of the world, is what's made most Americans into pussys. Maybe a holiday in cambodia...or hell, we can make a field trip visiting my family in the Phillipines.....should help cure that.
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