Sorry Asurai, but I feel that your pride has you cornered right now.
Even if Dragon Liver's (that's what it means, right?
) arguements can be debatable, her last sentence "owned" you right there and then (in my opinion).
Lemme explain. I thought for a long time and couldn't make up my mind on a number of people (some Rosicrucians, to be precise) who are oposed to the use of vaccines as they believe them to cause unbalnce to the natural ecosystem. As humans, we are part of a natural ecosystem and everything we do is therefore natural.
Earth balances itself. Like the rabbitt vs fox population keeps itself in check.
But think of lost civilizations, fallen empires, slaughtered nations, whole cultures erradicated forever.
Armies of specific human ethnicities, cultures, creeds and ways of life have already disappeared forever (like those huge white english hounds that Bull Terriers descend from).
Yes, there are 4 original latin nations (Italy, France, Spain and Portugal) and a whole lot of derivates (the whole of South & Central America, Guinea, Prince Islands, Cape Verde, Angola, Mozambique [where I was born], Goa, Indonesia, Macau, Philipines, East Timor, etc) but still, the roman empire is no more.
The Dodo bird is no more, the tasmanian tiger is no more, the lusitanian Linx is no more, the Iberian Linx is almost gone, the North african Lion and Iberian Bears are no more.
You can feel nothing at all by that and argue its a natural process, even if done by humans, as we are animals who are part of this environment.
Hang on.
Are we?
Because the rabbits sure as hell ain't part of the Australian natural environment. Maybe some other animals endanger local ecosystems when wrongfully introduced into them (this one is really an unsubtle way to talk about your bloody past, but fuck it).
What I mean is, if we don't switch to solar real soon, we're never gonna get on those spaceships and get the fuck out of here to other places we can dirty up and destroy.
Don't like the idea of a female nurturing mother nature?
Good, 'cause neither do I and the whole thing stinks of new-age hippies and wiccans to me (even if they are COMPLETELY right), not to mention I grew out of the Edipian phase a long time ago, so I don't like the idea that everyday I'm contributing to fucking my mother.
Try these ones on for size then:
We're all on the same boat. If it sinks, you die before you can make a raft out of the pieces. And why would you wreck a boat for a raft?
Don't shit where you eat. If you don't clean up after yourself, you'll end up eating where you shit, cuase even if you conquer, exploit and kill all other people (I'm being subtle again), you'll still run out of space sooner or later. Again, why would you do that when modern science enables you to clean up after yourself and feed yourself better now than at anytime in history.
Smart evolution means that I can buy butter at a supermarket, eat it and recycle the plastic. What's the use of having science make me a mechanical butter churner? None. It's misuse of brains and equipment. But some idiot wants it because he thinks it's his god given right.
I had a dream, but I traded it in for a way of life I can't afford but hold on to desperatly out of sheer arrogance and pride who won't let me admit I'm just plain wrong, like Bush on drilling in Alaska-
Think about shiting on your food, 'cause thats what Europe did (why do you think you came to be?).
In Portugal, I don't eat where I shit, but it's so close I can smell it all the time. We were able to slow down to a near stop before I ran out of space (subtle). But we look around and a lot is wasted, barren an desolate.
And it's really sad if you guys do that in the US, because you have some of the largest and most beautiful dinner plates. Sad to see you want to shit on those.
I know I'm pushing it a bit and know that what I wrote can be interpreted as provocative.
Yes, I'm provoking you, and you know I'm doing it to melodramatically emphazise a point.
For those who don't know, Asurai does believe in all he wrote (to an extent) but wrote it in a way to shake things up a bit. There's no lamer discussion than one where everyone agrees, and no more pointless one than one where everyone refuses to listen to eachother.
Asurai, am I wrong? If I am, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life brainwashing you into being one of the pussy hippies (because there is a kind of hippy who's not a pussy at all [me]).
Hey Sternn, see? That's how you argue with americans.
I basically said evrything you did and implied all the things you did, but no one is gonna flame my arse for it.
They'll argue for their "way of life" untill they'reblue in the face and living on igloos made out of McDonald's styrofoam, but it won't get bloody.
You too are provocative, and a whole lot more than Asurai.
I know you were pushed. I know you only got personal when your arguements were just dismissed and ridiculed instead of debated.
But no one can be as one-sided as you are.
There are things you just love about the US, but because you never show your appretiation, people almost assume you just hate everything about them, when it's not true.
You got on the nerves of your opponents and are right on the money on many issues, I'll give you that, otherwise you'd simply be ignored instead of flamed.
But the way you make your points these days have lost you a lot of credibility.
Dude, even I get annoyed. I start to read one of your posts, and even I, who agree with you on most things (although your opinions are rather more extreme than mine) can't help but think you won't post about anything you dislike unless it involves the US or Bush (I also hated Clinton, although I thought he was funny [Bush is funnier, but tragically funnier]).
To the other members of this borad, sorry for derailing this last bit.