[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Saya

And what I've seen is women who can't wear pants anymore because their c-section scars still hurt.

I've never even heard any such thing. After four c-sections, it certainly isn't the case with my wife.

No its not, and thats an extremely hard thing to do.

No it's not. It's only difficult to prove that someone in particular did it.

Unless you've given birth before you can't say you know first hand.

You need to pay attention. We're talking about the difficulty of rap victims to go the police right now. Not child-birth.

Way to oversimplify a complicated and horrible situation. Children are extremely suggestive

Dear lord, you just suggested that children ask to be *****.

and easily manipulated.

Even if a child can be manipulated into doing something, it doesn't mean they would be confused about whether it's okay or not.

Follow number three in the footnote, sheesh.

Didn't I just say that I already did?

Not always the case, unless you're watching CSI. I'm not sure how many rapists tie up their victims, how many victims are completely conscious and fighting tooth and nail.

Even if they don't fight, or can't, there's still physical evidence of forced penetration.

You're focusing on a very specific **** scenario.

And you're bouncing between numerous scenarios.

Then the **** convicition rate wouldn't be so low if thats all it took,wouldn't it? If it were that simple, there'd be no false accusations, right? They can talk to a person and say "this person has had a traumatic experience, or this person is depressed," but no one can say "This person has been *****" purely by how they are acting. And like I said, a lot of people put up a good front and some people dont' react at all.

That's why it's called "evidence" rather than "proof."

Not always. You might find this interesting:
http://www.safercampus.org/blog/?p=1296

That doesn't disagree with anything I said.

Its if a sober person takes advantage of a drunk person, whether or not they intentionally got them drunk.

In other words, no actual disagreement.

Its sad but actually, but think about it, its fairly recently in history that we consider these things ****. I hope we're getting better at getting **** education out there but its not the case, if you don't go looking for this info you might not ever know, except for your gut feeling that you were violated somehow.

Everything you brought up I learned in school. And I haven't gone to school in over a decade, so I'm inclined to believe that most of that stuff is common knowledge.

Like I said before, its just not that easy. And its not the kid's fault or the parent's fault if the kid doesn't come forward.

Why are you so obsessed with blame? I'm not placing any.

I'm not saying they shouldn't try and don't try to turn this around on me, I'm saying its not that easy for them and its not their fault if they don't report it. I can't blame a victim for not coming forward, even though I would and have encouraged it, its not their fault that our system makes it extremely hard for them to get any justice.

I said "you might as well say." Not "you said." I'm not turning anything around here.

You're still the one who said its their fault if they didn't report it so no abortion, dude.

I said no such thing.

Again, I apologize for your lack of abstract thinking. Thats very sad you can't do that. I'll try to be absolutely literal in the future.

If someone says something, it either means one thing or another. Over-thinking it and trying to create tenuous connections to something else is not abstract thinking, it is assumption. And in this case, it's also misrepresentation.

Fuck you. Even with that argument, a woman has the 18 years of responsibility and hardwork AND has to carry the child and risk health complications and death and give birth. Really, fuck you.

And since when is a woman not capable of handing full custody of a child over to the father?

I'd vote against the right to choose to **** too, since its forcing someone to use their body for your wants.

Which is why it's not only not a right, but illegal.

Again, really, what magical world do you live in where every **** and abuse case can be proven sooooooo easily? CSI or Law And Order? Especially with these cases it can come down to a "he said she said" scenario.

I'll tell you what worl I'm not living in... the one where you are where "almost always" doesn't actually mean "almost always," but rather "100%." Is that some more of your abstract thinking?

There are no rights for her to deny.

Then there are no right for him to deny.