[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Saya

I don't think its just about a minority. If we embrace the idea that you can't steal our money to bail out the rich, what's so different from embracing the idea that you can't steal land to give to the rich?

Nothing. But read the article. It doesn't read like an honest critique on the OWS movement, it doesn't read like: "Hey Comrade, don't forget about us, we've been being exploited by Capitalism WAY worse than you" it reads like Republican propaganda aimed at demoralizing and disrupting an honest movement for political and social change by driving multiple racial and cultural wedges between the wonderfully inclusive idea of the 99%.

Look at the language it employs: referring to minorities who are just as much of a part of the movement as anyone else as folks helping for a "political trickle-down", saying stuff right at the beginning like "I don't want to destroy capitalism" "no leaders means leaders move covertly"

This article reads as a direct assault on OWS, not an honest nudge, but a straight-up attempt to remove legitimacy on the movement by attacking it's liberal street cred. It is important that minority voices be heard, and be a driving force in the movement, but what is cobbled together here is an assault on the few people who are actively trying to make a difference.

I'd say they're pretty damn on message and puts the crime of colonialism at capitalism's doorstep and warns us not to use the master's tools. What's on message is being defined through white men's eyes, is the problem...How are you going to get true consensus if only the issues of the mythical norm matter in "the big picture"?

What's more important, to more people Saya: Discrediting the idea that some people are just "better" than others and the free market is how it is decided, or addressing a grievance done to people none of us know, by people none of us know?

I mean the boarding school stuff is straight-up criminal behavior, yes, by all means deal with that and bring those responsible to justice. Theft of land in the 1700s and 1800s? It's a distraction.

Its already happening. Did you hear about the "hot women of OWS" blog that popped up? That's the way to win feminist allies!

I saw topless body-painting there as well. It's juvenile and weird, and there deserves to be some level of criticism, but no more than having a free black-flag concert put on. It certainly doesn't discredit the entire movement.

Not having one solid message isn't OWS weakness, it is its strength. Feminism was co-opted by capitalism many many times, and the leftist movement too (you've heard of the Rebel Sell, right?) Already MTV is setting up a reality show to capitalize on OWS.

Not having one solid message is one thing, pulling the message completely off-topic is quite another. There are THOUSANDS if not millions of wrongs which need to be corrected. Can we correct the big one now, and focus on an overall cultural revolution?

In Manufacturing Consent Noam Chomsky talks about how in today's media, you have to get your message out in a little soundbite, that's all you can afford. Its the reason he says why no one likes talking to him on the news, because what he has to say is complicated and takes time. I don't think Chomsky should get a catchphrase to get a little bit on CNN. What needs to happen is that we must no longer define the public sphere by how capitalism defines it.

I think we need to move beyond soundbites, but fact of the matter is, the attention span has shrunk MASSIVELY. I'm not interested in operating in a different world, I'm interested in active working for a better world in this one and I will use every tool at my disposal to do so. You might as well criticize protestors for using iphones and facebook to organize anti-corporate demonstrations, and tell me that if I want to be a "real anarchist" I should demand and work towards the abolition of the state tomorrow.

People will respond emotionally to the accusation that property is theft. What's different is that "property is theft" isn't very specific in and of itself and needs explaining, so you can assure the average person that its not about them. The accusation of stolen land directly speaks to how long this has been going on, and how we built a country on colonialism, racism and bloodshed. It directly points to white privilege as master's tools.

that's why I say "Private ownership of Industry is theft".

The idea of privilege is important to stamp out. The fact that capitalism is built on exploitation of minorities and the third world is important to point out. Stolen land muddies the waters. If you make the primary issue "Stolen land" as the article suggests, it becomes a native American movement and isolates it. If you incorporate that as a smaller part of your overall narrative it keeps it inclusive.

As a feminist I'm not interested in dumbing down the message, and I'm sure other minorities aren't interested in pussy footing around so they don't hurt any white men's feelings. Again, this is directly about believing patriarchy is your sole support. What about the rest of us, who are oppressed in much different ways than the average white middle class male? We, who outnumber you? We, who have been fighting all our lives? Why are we not suitable allies but the apathetic moderate is?

Of course you're suitable allies, but this isn't just about you. Just as this isn't just about me. This is not about your private fight or your pet issues. They are important issues and they have a place, just as my personal issues do, but when issues like the theft of native land or feminists being offended by some kids using sex to sell the message take center stage it makes the conflict SMALLER.

It's tempting to shift focus to one or two smaller issues and try to slove those instead, but when you do you weaken the movement and purposefully exclude a huge number of people who haven't even THOUGHT about these issues. You bring personal prejudice into the argument and you undermine your own side and strengthen the opposition by displaying the ultimate liberal weakeness: Our tendency to criticize and second-guess our own before the ones who are actually responsible for the perpetuation of this intolerable situation. You break us up into tribes and nations and camps and fires, and you make it easier for the giant, unified block of dumbasses to run us over yet again because you're too busy quibbling over the details.

By all means, keep fighting for what you're passionate about. Keep calling the rest of us out on our shit and keeping us honest. Steer this movement in the right direction, but for the love of god, do it in a direction of solidarity. Do it in a manner which works FOR the movement, not against it, and most of all, do it in a manner that recognizes that most everyone is your comrade, because I'll tell you what, those folks on the right? Those folks in the 1%? They don't give two shits about stolen land or your own struggle for equality and would send you back to the kitchen to pop out babies in chains if they could, and they'd feel good about themselves for doing it.

You need mainstream appeal for something like this to work, and you need a consistent easily understood message, and you need to attack the root of the problem and leave the pruning for later.