[Miss Absynthe]

Originally Posted by Despanan

1) As blindness is a disability, is taking a driver's license away from someone who's legally blind ableism? If not, why not?

With the caveat that the following statements have little to do with my personal beliefs about the rights to own firearms, the purpose of the prison system or with involuntary hospitalisation...

The discussion isn't proposing that the right to firearms be taken from someone because they are unable to own a gun without injuring or killing themselves or others. The discussion as stated so far holds the proposition that this right be taken from people because they may or may not one day do something.

We are talking about innocent people who are capable of being responsible adults, who happen to have a mental illness.

Originally Posted by Despanan

2) If the mentally ill should enjoy all the rights and privileges of those who are not mentally ill, regardless of their condition, should they also have the same responsibilities. For instance: should courts reject the insanity plea? If not, why not?

People with mental illness simply don't enjoy all the rights and privileges of those who are not mentally ill - as has been demonstrated in this very thread.

People with mental illness have the same responsibility as people who aren't ill to not harm or injure people. "Reason of insanity" and "diminished capacity" pleas don't abjure them of that responsibility.

This question is invalid because we're not talking about what should happen to someone with a mental illness who is charged with [insert violent crime here]. Once again, we are talking about innocent people who have an illness.

Originally Posted by Despanan

3) If self-determination should never be removed under any circumstances, should children enjoy the same level of self-determination as adults? How about criminals or felons? Should people never be placed in prison? Why?

We aren't discussing children, criminals or felons. We aren't discussing people who are incapable of making informed choices because of age, or people who are being penalised for previously making poor choices.

We are talking about innocent adults who happen to have an illness.

Originally Posted by Despanan

4) If self-determination can be reasonably removed by society under specific circumstances, are there any circumstances in which it is reasonable to remove reasonable levels of self-determination from the mentally ill, depending upon their condition? ie: If it is likely that a schizophrenic's condition is so advanced that they have become a danger to themselves and others, is it ableism to involuntarily commit them?

Most people with mental illnesses who are hospitalised are done so in a voluntary manner. Most people with mental illness have insight into their condition and they want to be well. Those that are involuntarily hospitalised will often come to the point where they see the need for treatment while they were acutely ill and understand that it was in their best interests... but that insight occurs after the acute phase of their illness has passed.

What you don't seem to be grasping is that mental illness is a chronic condition with acute phases - this means that most of the time it is controlled, most of the time we have insight into our condition, most of the time we manage it. Occasionally there are acute periods where we need help in managing things - just like asthma, just like diabetes.

You don't seem to understand that we are responsible adults, capable of making mature and wise choices for our own lives... it's just that we also have an illness.

We deserve the exact same rights as everyone else.

~~~

Now, as an aside:

Will you please check your privilege and be more careful of your language.

It isn't "committed", it is "involuntary hospitalisation".
It isn't "the mentally ill", it's "people with mental illness".
And it isn't "schizophrenic" it is "person with schizophrenia".

It mightn't seem like a big deal for you, but it perpetuates the idea of "other" and is not only personally hurtful, but is harmful on a wider level.