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Old 03-15-2012, 02:23 PM   #3
Versus
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Despanan View Post
Ya know, I've seen alot of people throwing around "ethics" and "Ethics classes" as to why they're now pro-life.

I just wanted to point out that this is absolute hogwash. The only ethical position one can really take in this debate is to be pro-choice.

I've already touched on this, but let me break it down for you:

Either:

1) A Fetus /= A baby and has zero value when compared to a baby.

2) A Fetus < A baby (For example 8 Feti = 1 baby etc.)

3) A Fetus = A baby.

and

4) A baby < Any other human life

5) A baby > Any other human life

6) A baby = Any other human life

One really only has two choices here, which most would consider ethical. Either you believe #1 and #6, or you believe #3 and #6.

If you feel that a fetus has some fraction of a babies worth, you get into the tricky waters of putting a price tag and an exchange rate on the value of a human life (because that's the only way this thinking can logically lead). "Exactly how many feti to the baby and why?" and similarly "How many babies to the woman?" Under this logic it would be morally acceptable to sacrifice a certain number of women in order to save the life of a baby, or a certain number of babies in order to save the life of a woman. I think most people would agree that this is a monstrous line of thinking.

The ethical waters are further muddied by adding in economic concerns like the afore mentioned "It's okay if the child would bring a serious financial burden on the family". As I have previously shown this inevitably leads to ascribing a cash value to a baby, and then inevitably to a woman. As in: A woman may only have an abortion if the yearly cost of raising a baby exceeds the yearly income of her family by "X" amount, therefore a baby is worth exactly the cost of raising it to age 18.

Once again: Monstrous.

Therefore the only exchange rates that can be ethically applied are either 0:1 or 1:1. You must have the operating principal that either: A fetus is either not equivalent in any way to a human life, or it is worth exactly the same as a human life.

In the case of the latter, you run into a major ethical problem: As Saya pointed out, prohibition of abortion results in a great deal of human deaths, largely due to labor complications, and complications brought on by illegally obtained, unsanitary abortions, to say nothing of the negative effect an unwanted child has on the woman, her family, and society as a whole (for instance the article I linked shows a causal relationship between legalized abortions and a major decline in violent crime and strongly implies a causal relationship with the inverse)

Now combine this with the dicey legal and ethical issues involved in forcing a woman to carry an unwanted child to term.

Now combine this with the only conclusion one can come to if one believes in the 1:1 exchange rate: Abortion is murder and therefore genocide on a scale beyond anything we have ever seen. From 1973 - 1945 45 million legal abortions have occured. when only six million people died in the Holocaust

Therefore, if you are Pro-Life and believe that "Abortion is Murder, and a Fetus is a baby" you must either:

a) Immediately become a militant revolutionary (Because now America, to say nothing of the rest of the world, has exceeded the evils of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol-pot and all of histories greatest monsters combined, many MANY times over. You need to be killing abortion doctors, bombing clincis, and killing lawyers, women, and Supreme court justices. You need to weigh the deaths and compulsion of tens of thousands of women, the deaths of all those who appose you, and the deaths of those who die as a direct result of the increase in violent crime your actions cause against the deaths of the wholesale slaughter of the unborn, and find that the ends (the saving of infant lives) justify the means (the murders of your otherwise innocent friends and relatives who are pro-choice)

or

b) Turn your back on the most horrific sin and terrible Genocide the world has ever seen; because surely legalized abortion is worse than anything even our most pessimistic visions of sci-fi distopian futures, and you are living it.

Both of these positions are massively unethical. The former demands that one kill millions of otherwise innocent people in order to save millions of potential people, and the latter emphatically makes you worse than the people who looked the other way during the holocaust.

The ONLY ETHICAL OPTION is to conclude that fetuses are IN NO WAY equivalent to a baby, and that no amount of fetuses will ever be worth the life of an infant, a mother, or any other human life and focus your efforts on social reforms, sex education, and defense of a woman's right to choose.

Thus:

Logically and ethically speaking, pro-choicers are in the clear, and all pro-lifers are either ignorant or complete and utter monsters.
Spooky black text

Quote:
Originally Posted by KontanKarite View Post
No. That's not the same thing at all. A baby is a baby. A fetus is a fetus. They are just not equal, bro. By law, if we are to kill a baby, we are thrown into prison for murder. If you want to believe a fetus is the exact same thing as an infant, then you CAN NOT IDLY STAND BY AND LET CATEGORICAL SLAUGHTER of innocent lives go by without justice. By the standard of a fetus is just as equal to a post birth human should DICTATE THAT YOU GO TO WAR with a NATION of murderers. Because right now, as I'm typing this, 100s of lives have just been murdered and a nation is ALLOWING it to happen. It is even endorsing it.
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