[AshleyO]

Guys. I think one of the problems is that we talk about more than just what's being said. It is because I think a lot of us prepare our discussions with a shit load of different perspectives on a given subject.

I think discussing things in that manner may be beyond Jon's scope.

He wants to talk about MI, but then when we bring up other things such as culture, class, privilege, and societal norms and history, he gets overwhelmed and feels like we're trying to make an affront on him from some other angle that had nothing to do with the topic.

See how he's reacted to Miss Absynth and others when the topic of the killers being white middle class males made him jump off the handle? He's not ready to admit or realize the material reality of a white man's role in society. He probably thinks society is a hodge podge of radical individuals who aren't molded by culture or social interaction.

Sorry, Jon. You are awarded no points. I think the only reason I haven't totally declared you hopeless is because I was willing to listen and learn as was others. I think someday; you'll actually want to understand others instead of expecting everyone to just understand you and let it be the end of it.