[Saya]

Isn't that exactly what you're doing right now?

Absolutely not, quite the opposite. Like I've said twice in this thread now, I would never have an abortion, but my religious beliefs are not that of others so when arguing about abortion I cannot allow my religion or very subjective morals to come into play. A woman is pregnant, and doesn't want to give birth. Pregnancy, I'm not sure if you're aware, is not an easy thing and like I've already mentioned, abortion is safer than giving birth. Its her medical condition, her body and her choice alone, not the man she slept with.

Where, exactly, did I do that? Other than "nowhere," of course.

You're putting the responsibility on the **** victim to prove she was ***** otherwise she can't have her abortion.

More like "oh then they should just come forward." Period.

For a lot of women its not that easy.

I hope you're not suggesting that that makes it alright.

What I'm suggesting is that young scared women being abused by someone they may have trusted might not just be able to easily report their abuse.

I've seen plenty of reports saying that most people accused of sex crimes get convicted even if they're innocent. I've never seen one that says that most people accused of sex crimes get off the hook.

There is only a 16% conviction rate for a rapist in America:
http://www.rainn.org/get-information...eporting-rates

The issue of how many are falsified however is plagued with bad research on both sides, and is rarely ever touched. Its hard to say because a lot of studies who place that number as high include when victims recant, which is not an admission of guilt but an unwillingness to go through with legal proceedings. And of course the coverage on the falsified reports can make victims become targets, even if they have been ***** but can't prove it.

Oh, bullshit. A woman who gets ***** will display the same psychological and physical effects, no matter who it was who ***** her.

Bullshit, its different for every situation and for every individual. If a husband rapes, if a woman rapes a man, if a father rapes you, if a stranger tackles you in the bushes, if you wake up after someone slipped something in your drink and you're all alone in a motel room and don't even know what happened, everyone is going to have a completely different reaction. I know women who have been ***** who have completely derealized the situation, they never cried over it or felt fear, they just can't really feel like its real. I've known women who completely broke down and I know women who did a good job at acting and keeping up a front. I know men who have been ***** who would bottle it all inside, because they're men, right? I know men who hit rock bottom and couldn't get back up, I know men and women who dealt with it very well and never let it bring them down. I have known many people who have been sexually assaulted, I don't know a single one who reported it.

How do you not know if you got *****?

See above for date **** scenario, but also many people do not know that a spouse can **** their spouse, might not think that if you're drunk or asleep that it counts if it was a boyfriend or a husband, might not think it counts at all if you are drunk, might think that because they were not able to say no that it meant it wasn't ****, if they were coerced into saying yes, if a lover manipulates them afterwards and says things like "you enjoyed it/you were asking for it by doing/wearing variable z", if a child is ***** they might not even know what it was. Also for men they're supposed to enjoy sex, right? See the thread about the hairdresser ****** a man for comments on if men are even able to be ***** at all.

Neither can I. But that doesn't change the fact that, unless someone else catches the rapist in the act, a rapist won't get punished unless his victim comes forward.

And thats extremely hard for them to do, and even if they do there's only a 16% chance they will get justice at all.

No one's disagreeing with you in this case, so that begs the question... why do you continue arguing as if someone is?

Because you merely shrugged the issue of **** victims off as "well they should just come forward", meaning they get punished for not being able to or unwilling to report what happened to them. Thats fucking sick.

I wasn't aware that she even said anything of the sort.

she said: "Pro-choice and being okay with abortion are two very different things", I'm sorry for assuming you could look back and read. Not everyone who is pro choice will be willing to get an abortion, as simple as that.

If a man prohibits an abortion just to punish the woman, he punishes himself, as well. As for being abusive, that sounds like legal grounds to invalidate his choice to me.

I don't think getting the kid he wanted is equal to the punishment of pregnancy and the lack of the right to choose what to do with one's own body. And domestic abuse can also hard to prove, especially non physical abusers. But better err on the side of safety and treat all women like liars and make them have your babies, right?

If you had actually read my arguments, you would know that that's not true. What I've been saying (over and over, and yet people still can't comprehend this) is that the man should have a say. Having a say does not mean total control. Having a say does not mean that the decision to abort (or not to) will be as the man wants 100% of the time. It only means that what the man wants will be taken into account when the final decision is made.

I doubt many women will get an abortion willy nilly while being in a stable relationship without putting the father into consideration. A man should not have legal rights over a woman's body.