Cultural Amnesia

[Versus]

WASHINGTON — The Republican-led House of Representatives approved Friday the use of US force against Iran if the Tehran regime threatens the United States and its allies with nuclear weapons.
According to a section of the National Defense Authorization Act, "it shall be the policy of the United States to take all necessary measures, including military action if required, to prevent Iran from threatening the United States, its allies or Iran's neighbors with a nuclear weapon."
Lawmakers by a vote of 299-120 passed the sweeping legislation, which sets out a total of $642.5 billion in military expenditures for the coming fiscal year.
The bill including the tough Iran language came just a day after a non-binding but sharply worded House resolution put pressure on President Barack Obama to prevent Tehran from pursuing its nuclear program and reject policy merely aimed at containing a nuclear weapons-capable Iran.
Friday's measure would make the possible use of force a key plank in US policy to prevent Iran from acquiring an atomic bomb.
The bill would still need to pass the Democratic-controlled Senate, where Obama's allies are highly unlikely to pass the House version without substantial changes.
Obama has already threatened to veto the measure if it prevents his administration from carrying out its defense strategy.
The House legislation would require the US military to prepare a plan to boost the presence of the US Navy's Fifth Fleet in the Middle East, and conduct military exercises "or other visible, concrete military readiness activities."
Iran and the P5+1 powers -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States, plus Germany -- are preparing to meet next week in Baghdad for crunch talks on Tehran's contested nuclear program.
Western powers and Israel say Iran is masking an ambition to obtain nuclear weapons under cover of a civilian energy program, a charge Tehran vehemently denies.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilU12kCI8t1vicPrCDWafdRo7U9g?docId=CNG.0d8e1 a34f8eed2b6a7343577531cf5e3.791

[AshleyO]

Damn. Mother fuckers are just chomping at the bit. SMDH.

[Saya]

You know, even if Iran is trying to get nukes, who could fucking blame them? If they get nukes, the US wouldn't dare to attack.

Getting nukes is a surefire way to keep yourself safe from America.

[AshleyO]

You know what, Saya? You're totally right.

Crazy as it might sound; maybe Iran should get a nuke.

It's not like everyone is threatening them with war already. May as well have 'em.

[Versus]

I'm not so sure. Having a nuclear weapon and having a nuclear weapon with a capable delivery system are two different things. I wouldn't put it past certain mindsets, certain hysteria, to consider that acceptable risk in the context of the US's capacity to defeat ballistic missiles forward of it's borders. That's part of the capability that 5th fleet is supposed to provide.

[Saya]

My point is that the policy of pre-emptive strike encourages them to seek nuclear arms rather than scare them away. Saddam was very much scared away from WMDs and from what I understand was willing to do an awful lot towards the end to prevent a war, but Bush had his mind made up. Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but the fact that the US shies away from attacking countries that might have nuclear arms (like North Korea) would probably make Tehran work faster towards it.

[Versus]

I agree that the policy and history of "nipping it in the bud" encourage countries to work faster towards that capability, but I do not believe that the US would never dare to initiate an attack on another nuclear power. The US conducted numerous military operations, both directly and indirectly, overtly and covertly, against Soviet Russia during Thr Cold War. I would argue that we just haven't had sufficient international support and a close enough carrot dangled in front of us. I'm of the opinion that it's not a condition of if, but when. We're always looking for a way to get ahead, and nuclear weapons aren't the finish line.

The finish line is 50,000 culture, completion of the spaceship, a diplomatic victory, conquering all rivals, or controlling 2/3rds of the worlds land mass.

[Saya]

We engaged in proxy wars with Russia, but never directly. We will put sanctions against North Korea, but we know they're probably crazy enough to nuke us to death if we gave them an excuse.

The next step is creating a doomsday device like in Dr. Strangelove.

[Versus]

North Korea is not a threat to the US. It possess neither land nor sea based intercontinental ballistic missiles, and even if it did, the US is protected from them by it's ground based systems in Alaska. Those systems would not reliably reach the middle east to protect Iran's neighbors, but Russia has sites in Central Europe, and the US is trying to find a nation to host one as well.

Theatre level missiles from North Korea can be defeated by both the US navy's seaborne anti-ballistic missle system, our Army's own ABM, and those delivery systems which Iran possess are safeguarded by Isreal own systems as well.

I totally know my shit.

And don't you consider espionage and aeiral surveillance direct actions? I direct your attention to the U2 and SR-71.