Firearms

[Deadmanwalking_05]

I'm just going on the Self Defense story that Vlad posted,in my view as long as the suspects saw vlad with the weapon,and had the option to retreat,and ignored then advanced further then Vlad did the right thing,if they had began to flee,and Vlad had shot them I would agree that it was murder.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

"Frankin-Rifle" now in the planning stages.

An AR-15 A2 CD Complete Lower Half....

http://www.charlesdalydefense.com/lowers.asp


And an RRA- A2 Standard Complete Upper Half....

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.c...ategory_id=267

Pretty accurate platform in the making.

(Add three 20 round Mags into the set up and I've put together a capable firearm)

[Deadmanwalking_05]

The above project will have to wait until my first 3 buys

#1:22.LR Model 617
#2:38. special Model 67
#3:38. special Model1892 (Full rifle)

Anyone else feel free to throw in.

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Quoted for truth and accuracy.

It's people like Vlad who make this country the backwards shit-hole that it is.

LOL.Actually its people like me that have paid a price to protect your very right to sit here and have your freedom of speech.Enjoy.But just know it wasnt free..and it was paid for with ALOT of bloodshed.And if you have a problem with NOW knowing MANY MANY MANY people died brutally and aweful for your rights..then by all means get the fuck out.So from now on EVERYTIME you use this right and MANY more.YOU support the killing as well.or you will just leave quietly with our blessings.
Vlad

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Vlad

LOL.Actually its people like me that have paid a price to protect your very right to sit here and have your freedom of speech.Enjoy.But just know it wasnt free..and it was paid for with ALOT of bloodshed.And if you have a problem with NOW knowing MANY MANY MANY people died brutally and aweful for your rights..then by all means get the fuck out.So from now on EVERYTIME you use this right and MANY more.YOU support the killing as well.or you will just leave quietly with our blessings.
Vlad

I don't see the correlation between your killing, and my freedom. Unless you fought in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, or either of the world wars, you weren't protecting anyone's freedom, you were fighting for either politics or for greedy businesses, and I pity you for not seeing that. You're an ignorant redneck who thinks that problems can only be solved through bloodshed, and you'd be surprised to know that some of the biggest accomplishments of the United States have been brought about without one drop of bloodshed. Maybe you should read a fucking history book before you spout your war-mongering bullshit on a forum.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Okay you both tagged one another now come on,let it drop.

Getting into a shouting match with eachother isn't going to help anything.

[PortraitOfSanity]

I'm so glad I have dual citizenship. It means when I travel I can leave my American passport at home, and travel as a Canadian. Americans like Vlad give us such a bad name, it's disgusting. Also it means if McCain gets elected I'm fucking leaving.

Oh and furthermore those "rights" you "defended" are being revoked anyway, you can hardly speak out in this shit hole of a country anymore, so what the fuck did you kill for? What the fuck did your buddies die for?

Sorry Deadman, people like this really, really get me going, and I mean every word.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Oh and back on topic, Deadman, isn't the AR-15 considered one of the worst designed firearms in history? Or am I just thinking of the M-16?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

(M-16/AR-15 same basic design) The first problems the weapon suffered from was the combat use of stick and ball powder intrechangably (That mixed with your South Vietnam weather conditions) caused it to crud up and stop working,also the first rifles did not have the chrome moly chamber and barrel,and the first rifles weren't issued with cleaning kits.

But after all the fine details were hammered out if kept clean and maintained it will run just as well as an AK.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Yea, I know they're the same basic design.

There's a story from Vietnam where a dead Vietnamese soldier got dug up accidentally by a bulldozer. He'd been dead a long time, and an officer picked up the AK all caked in mud and shit, and said "this is what a real assault rifle looks like" and fired off the whole clip.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

They are tough.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

But the advantage of the AR system is in accuracy,plus being able to change it into a different caliber.

[killslowly]

Uhm... bringing back the topic of guns:

I particularly enjoy target practice, and appreciate a strong Second Amendment supported by lawful ownership and responsible use.

I am not a member of the NRA, nor am I a redneck (since insults seem to be the way of communicating here).

I do wish that we lived in a world were weaponry was not a necessity. Most warriors, professional soldiers, or drafted men do not pray for war, but they do pray for peace.

I also understand that there are people who relish the thought of warfare and violence, but those are in the minority, and may be found in any sampling of the population at large, not only in the armed forces.

So, here is one goth (and I use the term lightly) who enjoys precision shooting, small arms proficiency and has a healthy respect for the power and the freedom that a good weapon brings to the bearer.

Tag one for yes on gun ownership,

Uncle Jerry

[Deadmanwalking_05]

But lately I've been looking over Ruger's new offering in their Mini-14 product line.

It is what I've been looking for as far as a home & camp defense/truck carbine,16 inch barrel (Should cut down on barrel vibration and give the piece better accuracy) The model I'm looking at does come from the factory with two 20 round mags.

I really don't like the fact you have to keep up constant cleaning of the AR platform (Not that I don't clean my guns after every outing).

Plus the Mini-14 is based off a classic design (M-1 Garand,M-14/M1A Family of U.S. Battle Rifles) and the design has been touted for being reliable under the same conditions the AR platform seemed to become a jamm-o-matic.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...Yes&type=Rifle

Choices choices.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

K.S.

Thank you for posting.

[ArtificialOne]

This is a false story, but it brings up a great part of the gun debate. And for disclosures sake, I own guns and love them.

http://www.snopes.com/military/reinwald.asp

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Yeah that was has been pretty well noted.

The version I heard placed Reinwald as a police officer.

[killslowly]

Hello LiUsAiDh

I understand that you are not a gun fanatic like myself, but I will point out a bit of a fallacy on your arguments. Maybe my argument is wrong, but these words might give you a window on how we "gun nuts" think:

Your words:

"If nobody had guns, nobody would get 'blown up'. You, giving up your 'right to carry firearms' is the first step towards this".

Before the invention of gun powder, and the eventual invention and mass production of guns, people were killing each other in the thousands. Your problem is with a particular methodology of killing, the use of guns. When guns are outlawed, I will use a hammer to kill if I must. When hammers are outlawed, I will use a rock to kill if I must. The end result is death, not the method or the equipment used.

"In the UK, you're statistically more likely to get stabbed when you carry a knife; I imagine this follows in the US with guns."

Yes, this is true. It is also statistically shown that if you drive a car, the chances of getting into and/or dying in a car accident also go up. Action has a reaction.

"Also, as a woman, it is pretty easy to wrestle a gun off you, and use it on you. If you have no gun this can't happen."

I, as a man, will not drive a Masseratti Murcielago at 200mph on a curvy road, in the rain. That would be highly irresponsible of me. Why would you have a piece of equipment that you cannot use, specially a highly dangerous piece of equipment like a handgun? If you are not trained, feel comfortable, and capable, you would not be carrying a firearm around for self-defense/protection.

"Also, could you live your life knowing that you ended another's solely because they tried to steal your bag?"

First of all, who says that using a gun to prevent a hold-up is a one way ticket to killing the scum bag? I do not recommend brandishing the weapon at your assailant, if you do not intend to use it (kind of a like a bad poker game).

I have used weapons in my work, and I must tell you that in 20 years, I never had to shoot at anybody. And I was shot at, rocketed, mortared, ambushed, and RPGed. By your analogy, I should have killed like 1000s of people, because the use and carry of weapons leads to death and destruction.

I do not mean this reply as an insult to you. I believe that we all have rights, and we can all express our opinions intelligently, but to just spout statements based on a personal hate of something, removes us from civil discourse and diminishes us as people.

God Save The Queen,

Uncle Jerry

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by killslowly

God Save The Queen,

We use the same words with totally opposite levels of sincerety.

[killslowly]

LOL JITP,

I was just quoting Johnny Rotten/Lydon (^_^)

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by killslowly

LOL JITP,

I was just quoting Johnny Rotten/Lydon (^_^)

I know, and he used it in a completely and utterly satyrical manner. If you quoted him, tone and all, you just told her that you hate the Queen's guts.

[killslowly]

No JITP,

I don't hate the queen, really.

I presume that LiUsAiDh will see it for the harmless, ignorant American move that it was. I have nothing but respect for our allies in the "War on Terror" and the population that makes our allies.

Now, if I say:

"Las Malvinas, fueron, son y seran siempre Argentinas"

Then that would be stupidity.

(^_^)

[Saya]

I just wanted to respond because Liusaidh hasn't yet, and I love to argue.

Originally Posted by killslowly

Hello LiUsAiDh

I understand that you are not a gun fanatic like myself, but I will point out a bit of a fallacy on your arguments. Maybe my argument is wrong, but these words might give you a window on how we "gun nuts" think:

Your words:

"If nobody had guns, nobody would get 'blown up'. You, giving up your 'right to carry firearms' is the first step towards this".

Before the invention of gun powder, and the eventual invention and mass production of guns, people were killing each other in the thousands. Your problem is with a particular methodology of killing, the use of guns. When guns are outlawed, I will use a hammer to kill if I must. When hammers are outlawed, I will use a rock to kill if I must. The end result is death, not the method or the equipment used.

Can you hold up a school with a rock or a hammer?

"In the UK, you're statistically more likely to get stabbed when you carry a knife; I imagine this follows in the US with guns."

Yes, this is true. It is also statistically shown that if you drive a car, the chances of getting into and/or dying in a car accident also go up. Action has a reaction.

The thing is, anyone can have a knife, anyone can have a car, and in America, anybody can have a gun, or easily aquire one through less than legal ways. Actually there was a study that showed that half of gun deaths are by suicide! So you are more likely to turn the gun on yourself than anyone else.

http://daily.iflove.com/world/2008-0...nt_6809520.htm

"Also, as a woman, it is pretty easy to wrestle a gun off you, and use it on you. If you have no gun this can't happen."

I, as a man, will not drive a Masseratti Murcielago at 200mph on a curvy road, in the rain. That would be highly irresponsible of me. Why would you have a piece of equipment that you cannot use, specially a highly dangerous piece of equipment like a handgun? If you are not trained, feel comfortable, and capable, you would not be carrying a firearm around for self-defense/protection.

Once again, there is no kind of discrimination when people purchase a firearm. You don't have to know even how it works or how to shoot, as long as you have an ID and pass a background check, its yours. And at gun shows private sellers don't even have to do a background check. So if I was in America, I don't have a criminal record so I can purchase guns, but I'm weak as a kitten in truth and likely someone would have no trouble wrestling a gun off of me, but that won't stop anyone from selling me one. And the good old NRA would have convinced me its a great way to scare people off.

"Also, could you live your life knowing that you ended another's solely because they tried to steal your bag?"

First of all, who says that using a gun to prevent a hold-up is a one way ticket to killing the scum bag? I do not recommend brandishing the weapon at your assailant, if you do not intend to use it (kind of a like a bad poker game).

I have used weapons in my work, and I must tell you that in 20 years, I never had to shoot at anybody. And I was shot at, rocketed, mortared, ambushed, and RPGed. By your analogy, I should have killed like 1000s of people, because the use and carry of weapons leads to death and destruction.

And thats mighty responsible and honorable of you, really you have my respect, if you're that way I'd trust YOU with a gun, but not the average joe. There have been posts already that some people here feel that home invaders or thugs deserve to die once they attack you, or look like they are going to attack you, or you think they might pose a threat.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Saya

Can you hold up a school with a rock or a hammer?

You can't adequately defend your home against intruders with a knife or a hammer either.

The thing is, anyone can have a knife, anyone can have a car, and in America, anybody can have a gun, or easily aquire one through less than legal ways. Actually there was a study that showed that half of gun deaths are by suicide! So you are more likely to turn the gun on yourself than anyone else.

In the absence of guns, people with a desire to kill themselves will find another way to do so. Every time this comes up, I say the same thing: if owning guns is criminal, only criminals will have guns.

Once again, there is no kind of discrimination when people purchase a firearm. You don't have to know even how it works or how to shoot, as long as you have an ID and pass a background check, its yours. And at gun shows private sellers don't even have to do a background check. So if I was in America, I don't have a criminal record so I can purchase guns, but I'm weak as a kitten in truth and likely someone would have no trouble wrestling a gun off of me, but that won't stop anyone from selling me one. And the good old NRA would have convinced me its a great way to scare people off.

Are the regulations really this relaxed in most states? I know this isn't the case here in New York.
Obviously, one shouldn't attempt to use anything if one is uncertain of his or her ability to use that thing correctly. I definitely believe that dangerous goods should only be sold to those who demonstrate a proficiency in their implementation, but outlawing such goods entirely because some people will prove unfailingly inept and stupid is far too extreme-- by this logic, we should outlaw alcohol.

There have been posts already that some people here feel that home invaders or thugs deserve to die once they attack you, or look like they are going to attack you, or you think they might pose a threat.

If someone is shown a weapon and doesn't back off, they've accepted the risk.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

You can't adequately defend your home against intruders with a knife or a hammer either.

So its better to have a shoot out with them? Won't they have a gun?

In the absence of guns, people with a desire to kill themselves will find another way to do so. Every time this comes up, I say the same thing: if owning guns is criminal, only criminals will have guns.

A mighty number of guns are stolen from people who purchase guns legally. If owning guns is criminal, its harder for criminals to get them as there is none to steal.

" In 1994, more than a quarter-million households experienced the theft of one or more firearms; nearly 600,000 guns were stolen during these burglaries."

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/gun_violence/sect01.html

Are the regulations really this relaxed in most states? I know this isn't the case here in New York.
Obviously, one shouldn't attempt to use anything if one is uncertain of his or her ability to use that thing correctly. I definitely believe that dangerous goods should only be sold to those who demonstrate a proficiency in their implementation, but outlawing such goods entirely because some people will prove unfailingly inept and stupid is far too extreme-- by this logic, we should outlaw alcohol.

I'm not for banning all guns, no, but certainly gun laws need to be far more strict. I posted a link way back in this thread on how easy it is to get a gun, and a link on how easy it was for the kids in Columbine to get theirs.

If someone is shown a weapon and doesn't back off, they've accepted the risk.

I don't know if Vlad is still with us and can clarify, but in this instance he said it just happened in the dark, didn't mention giving warning, and shot to kill, and that shooting in the legs isn't enough to take someone down.