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General General questions and meet 'n greet and welcome! |
03-13-2013, 10:18 PM
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#4101
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
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Because to look past someone's identity as part of a marginalised group you are erasing their experience of that marginalisation. Also, by looking "past their colour/race/religion" etc you aren't actually looking PAST anything, you are actually assuming that your idea of colour/race/religion/sexuality/gender identity etc... is the correct natural default position. Have you noticed that nobody ever looks "past" someone's colour/race/religion etc to the assumption that their experiences are those of a black, queer, trans-woman with a disability? It's always an assumption that their experience will equate to what is known for white, straight, able-body/minded cis-gendered men.. because that is the power position in society, so that is what we assume the default should be.
There is a thing called "colour-blind racism" - if you read up about it you will find smarter people than I who will be able to explain the concept more eloquently.
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03-13-2013, 10:22 PM
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#4102
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
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Her post was actually an example of one of color-blind racism's frames; abstract liberalism.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.
-Breathin, Tupac.
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03-14-2013, 05:32 PM
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#4103
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitbat
Can someone please explain to me why it's wrong to think of everyone as equal? To look past their colour/race/religion and just accept them for who they are?
If you're an asshole, then you're an asshole, and it doesn't matter where you come from or your sex, or your colour, or belief system, you're still an asshole.
What's wrong with that way of thinking? I always thought that equal opportunity was looking beyond the package a person comes in.
I'm serious, I want to know why it's so wrong?
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Because bigoted people are incapable of realizing other people aren't as bigoted as they are, therefore they can't accept that you are willing to treat people on an individual basis, but that you are instead marginalizing an oppressed group and are therefore an oppressive member of whatever boogeyman category you can be shoehorned into.
You can probably expect a couple sarcastic "if only other people could rise above it like you" type barbs in the future, maybe if you're really lucky a few idiotic memes too!
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03-15-2013, 12:53 AM
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#4104
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
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Dude.. are you seriously wanting to get your arse handed to you in this thread as well?
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03-15-2013, 01:45 AM
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#4105
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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Just ignore him, he isn't interested in a conversation and engaging with him will only serve to turn this thread into a clusterfuck like the others
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Live a life less ordinary
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03-15-2013, 01:49 AM
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#4106
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
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I have him on ignore anyway.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.
-Breathin, Tupac.
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03-15-2013, 02:29 AM
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#4107
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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Wise choice
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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03-15-2013, 06:23 AM
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#4108
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denmark, thou Viking capital!
Posts: 2,277
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Okay, dragging this back on topic now.
What made my day?
The weight loss I experienced because of my stomach condition proved permanent thanks to a slow re-integration of food - and I even lost more because I lost a lot of appetite in the process. I don't eat much currently, and I replaced my lunch with a cup of yoghurt - which I find perfectly filling now.
__________________
Forget me not, for I do not deserve it.
Forget me not, as I do not forget you.
Forget me not, since I remain around.
Forget me not, and keep my memory.
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03-15-2013, 09:57 AM
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#4109
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
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Huh?! How the hell can you do anything on a cup of yogurt? I need 2,000 calories a day!
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.
-Breathin, Tupac.
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03-15-2013, 11:13 AM
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#4110
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denmark, thou Viking capital!
Posts: 2,277
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Well, technically, I guess I do too. Actually, if I wanted to keep my body weight, I had to take in about 3000 calories because I weigh too much.
However, I still have rather large deposits of fat that my body can work off - and I'm guessing that's why I'm not crashing hard on this rather unstable diet.
Once I am done losing weight, I guess I'll go back to a proper lunch, but for now it produces excellent results I have dropped over 5 kilos since I got that stomach thing.
However, all of my pants are now too large - same goes for my ring o.o
__________________
Forget me not, for I do not deserve it.
Forget me not, as I do not forget you.
Forget me not, since I remain around.
Forget me not, and keep my memory.
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03-15-2013, 12:02 PM
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#4111
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dude, I don't even know where I live anymore.
Posts: 1,276
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I've lost a scary amount of weight becoming a vegetarian. I mean im starting to see bones. I feel fine though. But, none of my clothes fit me anymore, espiacially the corset i just bought...
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Caution, I may bite.
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03-15-2013, 02:37 PM
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#4112
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Really? I gained weight when I went vegan. Sure you're getting enough calories?
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03-16-2013, 04:42 AM
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#4113
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denmark, thou Viking capital!
Posts: 2,277
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I got on my scale this morning without my clothes on... aaaand...
For the first time since I was a kid, it was under 100 kilos! 99.9, but still! That made me smile
__________________
Forget me not, for I do not deserve it.
Forget me not, as I do not forget you.
Forget me not, since I remain around.
Forget me not, and keep my memory.
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03-18-2013, 03:15 PM
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#4114
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In your trash can
Posts: 2,594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe
Because to look past someone's identity as part of a marginalised group you are erasing their experience of that marginalisation. Also, by looking "past their colour/race/religion" etc you aren't actually looking PAST anything, you are actually assuming that your idea of colour/race/religion/sexuality/gender identity etc... is the correct natural default position. Have you noticed that nobody ever looks "past" someone's colour/race/religion etc to the assumption that their experiences are those of a black, queer, trans-woman with a disability? It's always an assumption that their experience will equate to what is known for white, straight, able-body/minded cis-gendered men.. because that is the power position in society, so that is what we assume the default should be.
There is a thing called "colour-blind racism" - if you read up about it you will find smarter people than I who will be able to explain the concept more eloquently.
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Ah, thank you for your answer, and not just some stupidass statement. yes, I've noticed people typecasting others because of their gender/race/colour/religion/appearance. I just want to see the world from a different POV.
I found it interesting that while the rest of Australia was all saying "Oh look at Giles, he's the first Aboriginal person in charge of a territory" Giles was saying "Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my heritage, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm an Aboriginal person who has made it to this position."
So I looked up the wiki on colour blind racism and got to this statement
Critics allege that majority groups use practices of color-blindness as a means of avoiding the topic of racism and accusations of racial discrimination, and thus hide their true racial views,[8] and that color blindness is used as a tool in attacking group legal rights gained exclusively by some minority groups.[9]
But what if my true racial views are that assholes come in many different appearances? And that it doesn't matter on the outside, it matters what is on the inside, the person - and so according to colour blind racism, that makes me racist?
Ugh, there are days when it feels like I can't do anything right.
WMMD: pain medication.
__________________
"Always be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle." - Plato
Help me, I'm holding on for dear life
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03-19-2013, 02:24 AM
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#4115
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hell, it's other people & both of them are you
Posts: 1,001
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Giles is allowed to decide the way that he'd rather be thought of.
And, I wonder if his statement is to address the idea that the only reason he got the position was because he's Indigenous..
But, just the fact that this is something he has to even think about shows that racism *is* a thing.. how often would you hear the other side of it said:
"Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my heritage, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm a white person who has made it to this position."
The thing about privilege is that those who have it don't *have* to ever think about it, where as those without it are constantly reminded of other people's privilege and their own marginalisation. You will never hear the following, because these people will never be in the position where they have to explain their rise to status.. the default idea of power in our society is white, straight, able-bodied/minded, cis-gendered men:
"Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my gender, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm a man who has made it to this position."
"Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my sexuality, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm an heterosexual person who has made it to this position."
"Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my disability, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm an able-bodied person who has made it to this position."
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03-19-2013, 04:38 AM
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#4116
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denmark, thou Viking capital!
Posts: 2,277
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This did.
__________________
Forget me not, for I do not deserve it.
Forget me not, as I do not forget you.
Forget me not, since I remain around.
Forget me not, and keep my memory.
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03-19-2013, 10:32 AM
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#4117
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smexyville, Colorado
Posts: 2,424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitbat
Ah, thank you for your answer, and not just some stupidass statement. yes, I've noticed people typecasting others because of their gender/race/colour/religion/appearance. I just want to see the world from a different POV.
I found it interesting that while the rest of Australia was all saying "Oh look at Giles, he's the first Aboriginal person in charge of a territory" Giles was saying "Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my heritage, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm an Aboriginal person who has made it to this position."
So I looked up the wiki on colour blind racism and got to this statement
Critics allege that majority groups use practices of color-blindness as a means of avoiding the topic of racism and accusations of racial discrimination, and thus hide their true racial views,[8] and that color blindness is used as a tool in attacking group legal rights gained exclusively by some minority groups.[9]
But what if my true racial views are that assholes come in many different appearances? And that it doesn't matter on the outside, it matters what is on the inside, the person - and so according to colour blind racism, that makes me racist?
Ugh, there are days when it feels like I can't do anything right.
WMMD: pain medication.
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Awe Batty, I know this concept is such a pain in the ass, it took me forever to get a basic understanding of it.
I understand it like this. There are plenty of things that people in a position of privilege ignorantly make to or about people in a marginalized group. Ignoring the fact that some one in a marginalized group has experiences that are directly related to being a part of that group can lead to a person in a position of privilege to be insensitive to those differences or out right deny them to the marginalized person's face.
The person in the position of privilege doesn't mean to be an asshole, or to bowl any one over, but it happens. Things like "color-blindess" are one of the things that allow this sort of thing to happen, but instead of creating a more open and safe environment, it fosters an atmosphere of denial, and may even lead to more strained relations because the person in the marginalized position will be subject to the denial of many real problems they have to live with every day.
It pretty much just allows people in a position of privilege to pretend that marginalized people's problems don't exist.
I hope that helps a little. *hugs*
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Be Kind
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03-20-2013, 12:25 AM
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#4118
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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I learned that you can unfold a chinese box like so:
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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03-20-2013, 12:53 AM
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#4119
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solumina
I learned that you can unfold a chinese box like so:
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My mind is blown.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.
-Breathin, Tupac.
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03-20-2013, 02:00 AM
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#4120
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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I know, right? I saw it on pinterest while I was eating chinese takeout so naturally I had to try it and it was just this shining, glorious moment.
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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03-20-2013, 02:13 AM
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#4121
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denmark, thou Viking capital!
Posts: 2,277
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:O! Now I wish we had those in Denmark
__________________
Forget me not, for I do not deserve it.
Forget me not, as I do not forget you.
Forget me not, since I remain around.
Forget me not, and keep my memory.
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03-20-2013, 12:15 PM
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#4122
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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I knew that, but I enjoy eating out of a box more.
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03-20-2013, 12:30 PM
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#4123
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Alamo City, USA
Posts: 764
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Bummer, the only place that delivers around here just uses paper plates
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03-20-2013, 10:00 PM
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#4124
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In your trash can
Posts: 2,594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe
Giles is allowed to decide the way that he'd rather be thought of.
And, I wonder if his statement is to address the idea that the only reason he got the position was because he's Indigenous..
But, just the fact that this is something he has to even think about shows that racism *is* a thing.. how often would you hear the other side of it said:
"Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my heritage, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm a white person who has made it to this position."
The thing about privilege is that those who have it don't *have* to ever think about it, where as those without it are constantly reminded of other people's privilege and their own marginalisation. You will never hear the following, because these people will never be in the position where they have to explain their rise to status.. the default idea of power in our society is white, straight, able-bodied/minded, cis-gendered men:
"Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my gender, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm a man who has made it to this position."
"Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my sexuality, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm an heterosexual person who has made it to this position."
"Look I know there's been a lot of talk in the media about my disability, but I want people to look at me for what I've achieved, not because I'm an able-bodied person who has made it to this position."
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I know, that's what made it interesting, the fact that he had to make this statement, because most of the mainstream media were playing on the issue.
The examples you used are a great way of bringing up the issues, so people can understand it.
Ape: I'm going to read your post later hun, my brain has switched off, because I'm starting to let all the stressful things take hold, because I'm so tired. Thank you for taking time out to address my question. I really appreciate it.
__________________
"Always be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle." - Plato
Help me, I'm holding on for dear life
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03-21-2013, 08:56 AM
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#4125
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smexyville, Colorado
Posts: 2,424
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I've always got time for you, batty. *adorable grin complete with eyelash batting*
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