Mark Thomas on Coca Cola

[JCC]

Depends what you eat. I tend to live on a bowl of muesli, a small salad and some bread. 2L of water.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by JCC

Depends what you eat. I tend to live on a bowl of muesli, a small salad and some bread. 2L of water.

I probably could do that. What on earth is muesli mate?

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Nevermind, I looked it up.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Also, by the time you stop drinking Coca Cola, you'll notice the big difference if you drink one again.

So fucking true!

Happened to me with a Dr. Pepper. I'd been staying off sodas, and I had one because I was fucking thirsty with no alternative, and YEEESH!

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

I couldn't be a vegan, or even a vegetarian. Meat is a vessel for curry, and a necessary part of shawarma. Also, I'm allergic to half the raw vegetables available, and really can't stand them cooked (like carrots).

The other question is stuff like B12, iron and zinc. While most things can be acquired from vegetables, it's a lot more effective to get such things from meat because, firstly, there's a lot of it in meat, and, secondly, it's in a form that we can use more easily.
Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin):
helps form red blood cells, maintains nerve and gastrointestinal tissues.
organ meats, beef, pork, fish, shell fish, milk and milk products, eggs
(http://www.nms.on.ca/Elementary/know_your_nutrients.htm)

I never drank coke in the first place. I don't like fizz much, so the only fizzy things I'll drink, unless something's really weakly fizzy, are hard cider and snakebite (mmm the latter is like drinking velvet).

[Saya]

Man I had Coke with my screech last night after a very long time without soda, I felt so bloated >.<

@LaBelle, I take supplements myself, and most vegetarian "meat" like tofu dogs or burgers are fortified with B12. B12 is made by micro-organisms so fairly easy to replace.

I'm vegetarian but thinking of going vegan, I don't like eggs much anyway and I'm lactose intolerant, and finally found a soy cheese brand that doesn't taste bitter, so I won't be buying milk, cheese and eggs anymore. My only issue is avoiding food with absolutely no milk or eggs in them whatsoever, even the vegetarian "meats" we get here aren't suitable for vegan.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Saya

Man I had Coke with my screech last night after a very long time without soda, I felt so bloated >.<

@LaBelle, I take supplements myself, and most vegetarian "meat" like tofu dogs or burgers are fortified with B12. B12 is made by micro-organisms so fairly easy to replace.

I'm vegetarian but thinking of going vegan, I don't like eggs much anyway and I'm lactose intolerant, and finally found a soy cheese brand that doesn't taste bitter, so I won't be buying milk, cheese and eggs anymore. My only issue is avoiding food with absolutely no milk or eggs in them whatsoever, even the vegetarian "meats" we get here aren't suitable for vegan.

Plus things like gelatin tend to sneak up in odd little places.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

I couldn't be a vegan, or even a vegetarian. Meat is a vessel for curry, and a necessary part of shawarma. Also, I'm allergic to half the raw vegetables available, and really can't stand them cooked (like carrots).

Tofu, soya, etc. etc. Plus, I don't see how 'it makes curry nicer' is much of a justification for genocide.

Originally Posted by LaBellaDameSansMerci

The other question is stuff like B12,

Easily fortifiable.

Originally Posted by LaBellaDameSansMerci

iron

You'd honestly have a harder time finding food without sufficient iron.

Originally Posted by LaBellaDameSansMerci

and zinc.

Again, hardly uncommon.

Originally Posted by LaBellaDameSansMerci

While most things can be acquired from vegetables, it's a lot more effective to get such things from meat because, firstly, there's a lot of it in meat, and, secondly, it's in a form that we can use more easily.

Not true. B12 is found mostly in red meats. Humans are famously pathetic at digesting red meat.

@Saya and Joker: Honestly, all Veganism needs is a little power and commitment. It's not difficult to find vegan foods if you look, it's not particularly expensive. Plus, it's more ethical in that so much more can be produced and more people can be fed and veganism has been proven to make more of an impact on your carbon footprint than an eco-friendly car. I think the animal trade was shown to have something like more emissions than the entirety of transport or the entirety of transport in the US, something ridiculous. It's why there's this campaign against omnivorous 'environmentalists', because they're really a crock of shit.

[Necrophagist]

Vegan foods are easy to find. I'm used to it anyway.

[PortraitOfSanity]

I could never go pure vegan, I eat way too much dairy.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by JCC

@Saya and Joker: Honestly, all Veganism needs is a little power and commitment. It's not difficult to find vegan foods if you look, it's not particularly expensive. Plus, it's more ethical in that so much more can be produced and more people can be fed and veganism has been proven to make more of an impact on your carbon footprint than an eco-friendly car. I think the animal trade was shown to have something like more emissions than the entirety of transport or the entirety of transport in the US, something ridiculous. It's why there's this campaign against omnivorous 'environmentalists', because they're really a crock of shit.

I live in a pretty small city, with a pretty small vegetarian population. There's only two brands of tofu meats you can get in any of the grocery stores, neither of them vegan friendly. They say that they used to have vegan friendly stuff but it didn't sell, there's not enough of a demand. The brands they do sell apparently sell because of people going on diets moreso than actual vegetarians. Mind you I don't eat them that much and the majority of my diet is vegan anyway, but I don't think its possible for me to be completely commited to veganism at this time. And I wouldn't know what to do for when I eat at a friend's house, go home for vacation (its a tiny town and my relatives cook me big meals), get chocolates as a gift? That especially would be a problem at Christmas.

I completely agree with you on all your points, however, how do you feel about alcohol? A lot of wheat and barley gets wasted in the manufacture of booze.

[JCC]

Wheat and barley doesn't have a pulse.

Also, regarding not being able to eat out: sometimes what's important requires you to get a little hungry.

[Saya]

I know, just thought I'd mention it where a lot of people argue about how much food gets wasted feeding livestock.

And I'm very poor JCC, I couldn't bear to pass up a free meal when its offered

[JCC]

Well, if the amount of wheat and barley wasted is notable, I can do without alcohol to save resources.

Does nowhere sell salad where you are?

[Saya]

Depends, usually its mom who takes me out and her and my sister are huge Swiss Chalet fans, there the salads are tiny and meant as a side dish when they bring out half a chicken for each person -_-* So I usually end up getting perogies too. Other than that we usually go to the food court when we're in the mall, and the places that sell salad (there's only two) won't take out the cheese if you ask, since its already made.

Newfoundland sucks ass when it comes to specialized diets. We do have a vegetarian restaurant however that has vegan items, its hard to convince people to go there though, you'd be surprised how attached to meat eating a lot of people are, and its downtown which doesn't help. We also have a Cora's that sells a lot of fruit but that closes at like three pm (its a breakfast place).

[JCC]

Then go there quick and stock up!

If you don't agree with killing animals, put in the effort.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Originally Posted by JCC

Tofu, soya, etc. etc. Plus, I don't see how 'it makes curry nicer' is much of a justification for genocide.

Way to use a hyperbolic bomb word, JCC. Genocide is the willful and deliberate destruction of a group of people. I do not eat meat to kill people in Africa. I eat meat so I can actually maintain a vaguely healthy weight.

No, I don't agree with how animals are kept, and I think we could find a better way of doing it. HOWEVER, I don't think it's any more unethical for us to kill a cow than it is for a lion to kill a gazelle. It's part of our natural diet.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by JCC

@Saya and Joker: Honestly, all Veganism needs is a little power and commitment. It's not difficult to find vegan foods if you look, it's not particularly expensive. Plus, it's more ethical in that so much more can be produced and more people can be fed and veganism has been proven to make more of an impact on your carbon footprint than an eco-friendly car. I think the animal trade was shown to have something like more emissions than the entirety of transport or the entirety of transport in the US, something ridiculous. It's why there's this campaign against omnivorous 'environmentalists', because they're really a crock of shit.

It would require a bit more effort. I'd also have to get rid of all my leather possesions, to which I've grown quite attached.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

Way to use a hyperbolic bomb word, JCC. Genocide is the willful and deliberate destruction of a group of people.

It's not hyperbolic at all. It's wrong by definition, but it's not hyperbolic.
Genocide by definition has to do with humans, but for the sake of this, let's consider it doesn't extend just to humans.
Genocide is as you said, but you forgot an important thing: Genocide is the willful and systematic destruction of, in this case anythign that feels.
Therefore, yes, it is parallel to genocide.

I do not eat meat to kill people in Africa. I eat meat so I can actually maintain a vaguely healthy weight.

You don't need to eat meat to maintain a healthy weight. I am skinny and I'm not disappearing with an increasingly vegan diet. My healthiest friends (save two) are vegetarian. And I even have two vegan friends that are fat.
To quote Tolstoy: "A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite."

No, I don't agree with how animals are kept, and I think we could find a better way of doing it. HOWEVER, I don't think it's any more unethical for us to kill a cow than it is for a lion to kill a gazelle.

When you kill your own food you can use this piece of logic. However, as you yourself pointed out, you disagree with the way animals YOU eat are killed.
If you disagree with the way they're killed, and you can live a healthy life with no animal products, and you don't hunt your own food, then all of your consumer food lifestyle is immoral, even by your own standards.

It's part of our natural diet.

It actually isn't.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

It would require a bit more effort. I'd also have to get rid of all my leather possesions, to which I've grown quite attached.

I don't see why you should throw away possessions you already have (and were likely the product of an animal that died long, long ago) just for the sake of 'going vegan'. It just means you'll have wasted perfectly good boots/belts/whatever and will probably end up buying new ones anyway. Even if the new ones are vegan-friendly it's still a waste of resources.

My biggest problem with veganism is the common attitude of 'go completely and strictly vegan or FUCK OFF'. Any effort to avoid animal products should be commendable, no matter how small. Most people make none at all.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

It would require a bit more effort. I'd also have to get rid of all my leather possesions, to which I've grown quite attached.

The crust punk ethic says: "You had leather things before being 'enlightened'? That's ok. Keep them. Why should you participate any further in thie consumption/waste society by throwing away a perfectly good jacket?"

Is it a cop-out? Maybe. But it really makes no sense to throw away what you already had, so long as leather and wool accessories are avoided in the future.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

The crust punk ethic says: "You had leather things before being 'enlightened'? That's ok. Keep them. Why should you participate any further in thie consumption/waste society by throwing away a perfectly good jacket?"

Is it a cop-out? Maybe. But it really makes no sense to throw away what you already had, so long as leather and wool accessories are avoided in the future.

That makes sense, actually. I'm currently trying to avoid all food made by blatantly evil douche bags like Coke and Nestle and the like. This is difficult. My fiance was vegan for a while (had to stop for health reasons, she wasn't getting the right nutrients for a while and since eating meat her health has improved).

I would love to do it honestly. For one thing, I hate wool, it's itchy. As for no more leather in the future? Fine, I've got three pairs of boots and a jacket. If I need anything else, I'll buy fake leather, it's cheaper anyway.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

The crust punk ethic says: "You had leather things before being 'enlightened'? That's ok. Keep them. Why should you participate any further in thie consumption/waste society by throwing away a perfectly good jacket?"

Is it a cop-out? Maybe. But it really makes no sense to throw away what you already had, so long as leather and wool accessories are avoided in the future.

Somehow I'm not surprised that the crust punk ethic would be a sensible and practical one. I don't think it's a cop-out at all, waste is just as important to avoid as unnecessary animal products.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

I think I shall go for it. But baby steps of course. A week or two I'll try being a vegetarian, see how it goes. Then slowly eliminate dairy, which I hardly eat, and eggs.

[jack_the_knife]

I tried being vegetarian for 2 months as an experiment, but I didn't really enjoy it very much.
I don't think I could ever successfully become vegan. Partly because I don't think I could entirely avoid animal products partly because I don't think I would want to. But I might try a vegan experiment of few months or so, just to see if it's feasible.