Men who care more about their dicks than their Girlfriends.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

You analogy is stupid, so I'm ignoring it.

Anyway, if Bleed has depression and needs counseling, fine. She should get it.

What she shouldn't do is put herself in a situation that makes it worse over and over again.

Which of these two options is what's going on?

You're well within your right to feel that my analogy is stupid and to ignore it--but, it doesn't make it untrue.

And, she mentioned in an earlier post that her mother found out about it and mentioned taking her to counseling. She didn't elaborate on whether or not she's going to go through with it, yet... But, when she comes back from school, I hope she'll cover that.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

What does it explain, asshole?
You want to play your best game of psychiatrist?
Go ahead--tell me what my problem is.

If you say anything even remotely correct, I'll be 100% honest about it.
Because I know you'll be totally wrong and just make assumptions like everyone else.

I have no idea what happened to you, nor did I ever claim to. However, if you have had some kind of serious trauma involving sexual issues, it might explain why you are normally so defensive about such issues.

Key word: Might. Meaning that I could be wrong, and it could be something else entirely.

As for assumptions, I'm trying very hard -not- to make any. I know that if there's something you want to discuss, you will...and if you don't want to discuss it, you won't. But, I assure you, despite our past disagreements, if you -do- decide to tell me, I will treat the subject sensitively and with understanding and compassion.

But, if you don't want to discuss it, I will totally understand.

[Underwater Ophelia]

PS--what's the deal with you guys thinking that just because I don't agree with you I can't possibly understand?

Are you telling me that EACH AND EVERY ONE of you has been molested and went to the same post-molestation camp as Bleed and so you understand her so well?
No.
You just all agree.
Since I don't agree, I must either not understand the situation, or be a bitch.
MAYBE I JUST DON'T FUCKING AGREE.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

You analogy is stupid, so I'm ignoring it.

I dunno; it seems pretty accurate and likely to me.

What she shouldn't do is put herself in a situation that makes it worse over and over again.

Haven't several people said as much? However, when one is dealing with emotions, issues become more complicated than simple right or wrong..

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

MAYBE I JUST DON'T FUCKING AGREE.

So you don't agree. That's all fine and well and good. But why get so bent out of shape about it? Quite honestly, I think that if the only issue was that you don't agree, then you wouldn't get so upset about it.

Besides, if what we say bothers you so much, you -can- put us on ignore so you don't have to see our responses. Hell, you can even ignore us without putting us on 'ignore' by choosing not to respond. :/

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

You're well within your right to feel that my analogy is stupid and to ignore it--but, it doesn't make it untrue.

And, she mentioned in an earlier post that her mother found out about it and mentioned taking her to counseling. She didn't elaborate on whether or not she's going to go through with it, yet... But, when she comes back from school, I hope she'll cover that.

Your analogy is stupid because a young child with a cold can't control their affliction.
Bleed can, and just isn't. She is fully capable of removing herself from a bad situation. She just isn't.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

I have no idea what happened to you, nor did I ever claim to. However, if you have had some kind of serious trauma involving sexual issues, it might explain why you are normally so defensive about such issues.

Key word: Might. Meaning that I could be wrong, and it could be something else entirely.

As for assumptions, I'm trying very hard -not- to make any. I know that if there's something you want to discuss, you will...and if you don't want to discuss it, you won't. But, I assure you, despite our past disagreements, if you -do- decide to tell me, I will treat the subject sensitively and with understanding and compassion.

But, if you don't want to discuss it, I will totally understand.

See, that's the thing.
I'M NOT defensive about sexual situations at all.

If you can find one example of me being defensive about a sexual situation, show me.

My point about this, which you are all cleverly ignoring, is that Bleed is wrong to treat someone badly after doing something she freely did.
Being molested, depressed, or in a bad mood doesn't excuse you from bad behavior.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

PS--what's the deal with you guys thinking that just because I don't agree with you I can't possibly understand?

Are you telling me that EACH AND EVERY ONE of you has been molested and went to the same post-molestation camp as Bleed and so you understand her so well?
No.
You just all agree.
Since I don't agree, I must either not understand the situation, or be a bitch.
MAYBE I JUST DON'T FUCKING AGREE.

Oh, Underwater Ophelia... You've every right to your opinion, as we have to ours. We're not trying to castigate and vilify you. My entire reason for continuing to respond to you is because I hope I can help you reach some sort of peace on the matter. Maybe you do understand and maybe you don't. But, it's clear that my attempts to show you a different point of view are upsetting you greatly. That's not my intent and, so, I'll leave off responding to you--unless you request it--from now on.

I've not been molested--to my knowledge--but, I have gone through depression and have severe abandonment issues. I can see where Bleed is coming from, even without having gone through the horrors she suffered. I know what it's like to be afraid to end a relationship you know--perhaps deep in the back of your mind, but you know--is unhealthy. So, I explain things from that point of view.

I'm sorry if you've experienced anything like what Bleed went through, as that sort of thing leaves life-long scars... But, if you're suffering as a result of that, please, think of counseling for yourself...if only to get some relief from the pain you're experiencing. Keep in mind that I'm not assuming you have gone through something--I don't know--just saying that, if you have and you're still hurting, there are things that you can do to make life easier.

That's all I want for anyone, really.

[Tam Li Hua]

Ophie: I think Wynneth is comparing the molestation to the cold, not the relationship she's in.

About defensiveness: You just seem defensive in general. And I'm saying that being traumatized...and not properly dealing with that trauma...could be a factor in that.

That does NOT mean that I 'assume' you've been traumatized! Just means that it would explain why you are always on the defensive. Of course I could be wrong, and it could just be your natural personality to be prickly.

As for treating him badly, I don't see where she has, but we have a right to say that we understand why she's angry just as you have a right to disagree.

Is it okay for us to simply disagree with each other without all the drama?

[LiUsAiDh]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Ophie:
That does NOT mean that I 'assume' you've been traumatized! Just means that it would explain why you are always on the defensive. Of course I could be wrong, and it could just be your natural personality to be prickly.

I've only met a few people who you might call 'traumatised', and none of them were defensive, quite the contrary actually.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by LiUsAiDh

I've only met a few people who you might call 'traumatised', and none of them were defensive, quite the contrary actually.

Everyone reacts to such things differently. If one hasn't properly dealt with it, then one can become defensive, or withdrawn, or outwardly angry, or any number of other things.

I've met a lot of people with lots of different kinds of trauma, and no two folks have dealt with it in the same way.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by LiUsAiDh

I've only met a few people who you might call 'traumatised', and none of them were defensive, quite the contrary actually.

Had they received any form of treatment or counseling? Were their parents aware of the situation when it happened and did they deal with it right away? Perhaps those people had an advantage that wasn't afforded to Bleed.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Everyone reacts to such things differently.

But then you reasoning doesn't apply.
If having been traumatized leads you to assume someone becomes defensive.
Then someone tells you that traumatized people never seem to become defensive.
Then you say that experience doesn't apply in thsi case and you could still be right.
Then your first assumption is invalid.

[$haDe]

god... I was about to get something then someone came up and overthrew it with something 'else'..i tried to get the point then new theories keep coming and debating(literately) each others...

I'm so confused..

[Underwater Ophelia]

Ugh, I'm not upset, Wynneth. This is ALWAYS how I am. You're a newbie, so it's not big deal.

And no, Tam, I'm not defensive in general, I'm just sure of myself.

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

That was a joke, HumanePain. An obvious joke.

That's where we differ GM, I don't think Bleed's post and outreach for help is a joke. There are a gazillion threads here for joking with, but I discerned that this was a different thread from others, but to you it was still lumped in the "all jokes" category. I understand where you are coming from, to jokers all life is a joke. But I differentiate Bleed's thread and you do not, our perception and interpretation of when to joke are of different calibration.

And you can say what you want about me, I won't blow up. My buttons are for me to push only. In that regard I am little like Catch I suppose.

[JCC]

For fuck's sake.

Molestation does not defensive make. It's insulting to imply that it does, and it's insulting to imply that Ophelia has some sort of condition that would be brought about by traumatic experience. Seriously Tam, is your brain even connected to your fingers?

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Ugh, I'm not upset, Wynneth. This is ALWAYS how I am. You're a newbie, so it's not big deal.

And no, Tam, I'm not defensive in general, I'm just sure of myself.

That's fine to be sure of yourself, but when you get upset because you infer things from what we say that we in no way intended, then that -is- being defensive...and needlessly so.

Also, I think it's a bit hypocritical to get upset about someone calling you a bitch when you act so callous towards them, when you call people morons and idiots for no reason at all constantly.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

I'm in full agreement with Ophelia. They're both in the wrong.

Bleed, talk to your boyfriend. If you express to him that this constant guilt trip is bothering you, and he's still doing it consciously, then you need to leave the relationship. Staying in a relationship where you're both going to hurt the other is a STUPID fucking idea. If, however, you really want to stick by him and think you can work it out, you have two options. EITHER KEEP YOUR LIPS OFF HIS DICK OR DON'T FUCKING COMPLAIN.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

But then you reasoning doesn't apply.

Ok, Jill; I'm going to take these one at a time.

If having been traumatized leads you to assume someone becomes defensive.

If you would be so kind as to go back and read what I said, I already said that I could be wrong. I only offered it as one possibility among many.

Then someone tells you that traumatized people never seem to become defensive.

Wrong. LiU said that no one she had known had ever been defensive. I, on the other hand, -have- known some traumatized people to be VERY defensive. Then again, I've also known some to be some of the sweetest, kindest people you'd ever want to meet.

Then you say that experience doesn't apply in this case and you could still be right.

Of course I could be right. I could also be wrong. Which I already said in the posts you are critiquing. I said it could be a possiblity, or it could not. My sister was heavily traumatized in the past, and she's one of the most defensive, most difficult people on the planet. [In fact, Ophie reminds me a wee bit of her. ]

Then your first assumption is invalid.

No it's not, since I never said that I assume something for certain.

In conclusion, I would like it very much if you would read my posts and what they actually say for once, instead of turning them into something they are not. You of course don't have to; I would just appreciate it from you and from everyone else.

Thank you.

[Tam Li Hua]

JCC: Re-read my posts, and my reply to Jillian.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

I'm in full agreement with Ophelia. They're both in the wrong.

No one's arguing that.

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Bleed, talk to your boyfriend. If you express to him that this constant guilt trip is bothering you, and he's still doing it consciously, then you need to leave the relationship.

We are still in agreement.

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

EITHER KEEP YOUR LIPS OFF HIS DICK OR DON'T FUCKING COMPLAIN.

This was a bit unnecessary, though.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

This was a bit unnecessary, though.

No, it was crass. Sometimes being blatant and crass is neccesary to get a message across with more power.

And sometimes things just fucking piss me off.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

No, it was crass. Sometimes being blatant and crass is neccesary to get a message across with more power.

You're right. Sometimes, it is necessary--a sort of splash of cold water, so to speak. But, I don't think it's the best method, in this instance.

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

And sometimes things just fucking piss me off.

Sure. Everyone gets pissed off.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

You're right. Sometimes, it is necessary--a sort of splash of cold water, so to speak. But, I don't think it's the best method, in this instance.

I don't sugar coat.