Does America Have A Future?

[Splintered]

Every major nation has collapsed eventually. The Roman empire fell, the Holy Roman empire fell, the French Empire under Napoleon, the British Empire, they have all fallen. Perhaps not to the extent of the total obliteration of the country, and a descent into the dark ages, but it has fallen before it's former glory.

The United States of America is seemingly on that verge in my mind. It appears to be approaching a critical point where if policy doesn't change, and doesn't change soon, it may be in for a world of hurt.

It doesn't look too good, because it seems the current regime is making all the wrong choices.

Under Bill Clinton, we had the national debt go down, when compared to the GDP. Under Bush, we have had it continually rise. To make this even scary, it's now in the neighborhood of 8-9 Trillion of public debt.

We're fighting two wars right now, in two different countries, where we may not win. To win, we'd have to commit troops that we may not have, and even push us farther into debt.

Our current president has an approval rating of (Last time I checked), between 30-35%, with estimates even going below that.

Knowing those three factors alone, and multiple others that I have forgone spending the time to push, it seems like the U.S. is on a downward trend.

So, what I am asking you is:

1. Is the U.S. "At the end of it's reign", why or why not?
2. If the U.S. does collapse, how small or large will the effects on the global community be? Why?
3. Is there time for the U.S. to turn around, and how?

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

I don't know if America does have a future. I am guessing that maybe with a new President, and a lot of years of work, maybe some how America will not fall apart.

but it's kind of hard to tell now.

[Binkie]

Contrary to some radical rhetoric from blowhards (i.e. Chavez 'n friends), the United States is not an empire. The Romans, British, French, Nazis, and Soviets all had campaigns of expasionism to where they annexed countries and their economies and often imposed direct rule. Regime change is not annexation and as much as some individuals want to play the "puppet" card, it really doesn't fly with democratically elected officials.

The United States is no where near "collapse," either economically or politically. Bush is an extremely polarizing president. He held the highest public approval rating (almost 90%) and the lowest (roughly 30%) of any president since those statistics were recorded. Just because it's low doesn't mean some military coup will occur and impeachment has all but been ruled out by the newly elected Democrats.

If tomorrow all of our overseas military bases closed down and we returned to a policy of isolationism, we'd still be the same United States of America. Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, Japan, and many other countries are not states of this country.

People who wish to fantasize of a collapse of this country won't be smiling for long because the rest of the world economies will suffer dramatically. Not even Hugo Chavez wants that - as Venezuela is one of those countries that does alot of business with this nation. Despite their threats to sell their oil to China instead, they can't afford it and don't have the current refining capabilities to make that possible without losing money.

Stability would also collapse. Wars would break out left and right - the ones that US military deterance has prevented thus far. North Korea has the military capacity to consume the South and milk it's economic resources to prolong it's life a little further. China would retake Taiwan for more economic resources durring a time of major recession.

So does the United States have a future? As a no-brainer, that would be a definite, "Yes." Anarchy won't break out tomorrow, there's no possibility of a military coup, the economy is vibrant, and the political atmosphere isn't anywhere near as polar compared to the late 60s and early 70s with incidents like Kent State.

[HumanePain]

America does have a future, one that began economically, but will bear a fruit of a different kind in the years to come.

Yes, economically speaking, China and India are ascending, and the United States is descending, HOWEVER, the pluralism and freedom of the U.S. (compared to other nations) has been and still is attracting many people from around the world.

The United States will shift from an economic superpower, to a cultural superpower, spreading our language, music, movies etc. around the world. China and India may have most of the money 25 years from now, but they will also be speaking English, and be eating in local Hard Rock Cafes.

We will adapt to the new future, and will persevere. There is too much intellectual, cultural, and economic inertia for it to just suddenly disappear.

In my humble opinion anyway.

1. Is the U.S. "At the end of it's reign", why or why not?
ANSWER: No, it is at the cusp of a new phase.

2. If the U.S. does collapse, how small or large will the effects on the global community be? Why?
ANSWER: It will not collapse, but if it were to collapse, it would have a large negative effect on the world as this would impact food supplies, banking, world markets, medicine and technology etc.


3. Is there time for the U.S. to turn around, and how?
Yes, by changing our nations priorities:
a) shift spending from military to education.
b) emphasize math and science in the schools, from an early age.
c) Halt corporate welfare.

[Circle V]

Originally Posted by Splintered

Our current president has an approval rating of (Last time I checked), between 30-35%, with estimates even going below that.

I'll devote more time to this later, but I'd like to point out that the British government has an approval rating of approximately 20%.

[Godslayer Jillian]

The United States may last as a country, but I'm not sure about a nation.
as I have stated before, its currency is not controlled by he government. The skeleton of the nation is not his, and is not even made out of bone, but pulled out of thin air.
As long as its currency has no real value, the risks of collapse are high. If the States were a business, no one would have allowed them to keep running.

[MollyMac]

As long as Canada is still part of America, we're all good...

... or were you referring 'Merica, meaning the States?

[L1feOnM4rs]

As always, I agree with HumanePain. In addition I'd like to pose this question: Does it matter if America has a future?

Obviously it does to an extent - the decline of any nation inevitably results in suffering and hardship, but on a personal level, does it matter? I've noticed a lot of people devoting a lot of time and energy to heralding the coming end times, both lamenting and cheering on the coming collapse of the US. Honestly, what can we do but let history ride its course. I'm not trying to sound nihilistic; I think we should all do our best to improve our communities however we can, but if America is doomed to decline, then oh well, if not, great. We should do what we can to help, without stressing over things we can't control.

[KontanKarite]

The USA is in no way ready to fall apart. Though, in retrospect, I think there are some things that have come to pass that have to be fixed. I'm still irked about the equation "Better Security = Less Freedom"

HAH! That reminds me, I was pulled to the side and had a near cavity search at an airport because I looked suspicious. If a red and black brocade suit with a fishnet undershirt is suspicious, then well... wow.

[Vako]

What HumanePane said. Agreed.

[the_dude]

first and foremost, comparing presidents and their terms in office is a redundant waste of time. sure, so-and-so did this or that when they were 'president.' right now it doesn't really matter.

america's turning into a post-industrialized economy. less blue collar jobs, more college students. and mr. humanepain said earlier, and he seems to be an intelligible dude, we should spend more dough on education. cutting it out from military is one way to approach it.

the world has shrunk. things that go on in almost any country, affects all countries. someday america won't be a superpower anymore. but the land will still be here. edumacation is the lucky lottery.

[Mirazatha]

1. Is the U.S. "At the end of it's reign", why or why not?
No, its not. Yet at least. And even then, only in one sense. If you look further on, you can kind of see it becoming less of both a pure economic power and less of a military power. By "pure" economic power i mean it will not produce as many physical items to be sold, but it will produce more and more research, techniques, technologys, art-type things (music, movies, etc.). And the military lessening depends on something that works replcing the UN. or the UN getting its shit together, which seems highly unlikely.

2. If the U.S. does collapse, how small or large will the effects on the global community be? Why?
If it outright collapsed tomorrow? It would have a large, detrimental effect on the global community. trade would become royaly FUBAR'ed and the "stick" from the "carrot and stick" approach of managing unruly bully countries such as china, north korea, russia, etc, would be gone. and right now the only thing keeping them in line is the admittedly really rather large stick the US has.

3. Is there time for the U.S. to turn around, and how?
There is, and im not sure. Being less... arrogant? might work, but in many other countries Americans are seen as very arrogant, normally stupid, rather ignorant and insensitive. The is no way for America to continnue being the main "economic" power, simply because other countries have more population or more space, and more willingness, but the US can easily dominate in the 4th tier economic practices, reaserch, complicated technologys, medicin, etc. as well as in entertainment.

[L1feOnM4rs]

The Only Way America Can Survive Is To Dominate The Weak, Enslave The Survivors, And Convert Them Into Mindlessly Obedient Cyborg Super Soldiers. Duh!

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

The United States may last as a country, but I'm not sure about a nation.
as I have stated before, its currency is not controlled by he government. The skeleton of the nation is not his, and is not even made out of bone, but pulled out of thin air.
As long as its currency has no real value, the risks of collapse are high. If the States were a business, no one would have allowed them to keep running.

This pretty much sums up my feelings as well. That being said the future of America depends solely on one single facet, as it stands now - the petrol dollar recycling issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling

Bottom line is this - the minute the rest of the world moves from trading oil in dollars to euros, the American economy as we know it will take a header. And this is happening now, and will be a drastic change in the future which will happen in our lifetime.

The American government and their power derives from this alone. The military machine is funded by this, the US corporations are bailed out by this, America is allowed to run such high debt due to this. Take it away, you take away the edge that America has.

[nuksaa]

the American economy as we know it will take a header.

Hmmm...strange how US Agricultural exports have increased with the weakening dollar. Frankly I am all for removal of the oil system from the dollar standard to the Euro. In the short term there would be a lull, but the long term gains are the US dollar would no longer be tied to a commodity. I would be concerned on attaching the Euro to the oil, with the push of alternate fuel sources, and it would light an oil boom in the US. Prior to WWI, the US was a major exporter of oil. US oil production has significantly declined due the fact it cost more to extract a gallon of oil in the US than importing it from other countries. There are many oil pumps throughout the US which are shutdown due to not enough profit to be made.

I would also be concerned in the EU. If suddenly many countries have much more spending capital, how long until the use of this new found ability causes internal conflict within the EU.

And if the dollar weakens, suddenly you would see companies building more in the US because their now Euros are able to go farther in the US than their own countries and they would begin to export their jobs to the US. Build some infrastructure...wait those already exist. Would it be just as simple as refurbishing a plant or building to meet the needs of the company and hiring people who already have a certain level of technical skills to minimize the need for training? As I stated, I would be concerned if I was a member of the EU and wouldn't be rooting for a complete conversion of the oil market to the currency in my pocket.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Just as an aside, I'm liking the possibilities for Mexico. With ethanol being extracted from corn, we have a nice export; and there's talk about returning to the gold standard, something I'm excited about. The only thing it needs is to modernize in agricultural technology.
A little more socialism in its government would be helpful for a while, but as I'm not of the ones that would benefit from it, eh. =p