Why do we Existance?

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah!

BTW, I thought Shark-Week-RPG was brilliant.

To the focus of this thread, there's not much point in asking. I refer you to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds and a modern day interpretation thereof.

Before accepting any widely held beliefs about the reason for our existence, remember that a vast majority of humans once believed that the earth was flat, the sun revolved around the earth, if man was meant to fly he'd have wings and no one will ever run a mile in under a minute. Those weren't fringe beliefs ... those were the mainstream.

So, my advice to you is ... if you hear an opinion expressed by a large group of people, dismiss it immediately. If, however, you learn of an extreme explanation held by only a few people on the radical edge, adopt it whole-heartedly.

[Senor_Sadomachism]

Originally Posted by OnyxBat

True, then there reincarnation and you do it all over again *says in a deep voice*
"Until the end of TIME!!!"

Actually the world will never end! We have eternity. Although this site is said to be full of misinformation, this one article might help with your question. I thought it was very inspirational.

http://templeofenki.bravehost.com/Purpose.html

[OnyxBat]

Originally Posted by Senor_Sadomachism

Actually the world will never end! We have eternity. Although this site is said to be full of misinformation, this one article might help with your question. I thought it was very inspirational.

http://templeofenki.bravehost.com/Purpose.html

It is very inspirational but it's also something that almost every religon says, if you help others then the good lord will let you past through hevens gates but in the article's case if you help others then your spirt will move "forward". That was a very good article Senor thank you for sharing it.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by OnyxBat

It is very inspirational but it's also something that almost every religon says, if you help others then the good lord will let you past through hevens gates

[OnyxBat]

Wow...nice pic.
Don't hurt your self Saya.

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by OnyxBat

It is very inspirational but it's also something that almost every religon says, if you help others then the good lord will let you past through hevens gates

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." -Albert Einstein

But I liked Saya's interpretation too.

[Cruel Intentions]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

So, my advice to you is ... if you hear an opinion expressed by a large group of people, dismiss it immediately. If, however, you learn of an extreme explanation held by only a few people on the radical edge, adopt it whole-heartedly.

And that's how you end up with people like Kim Jong Il.
http://www.11points.com/News-Politic...ong-Il_Moments

Because I would never doubt Dear Leader...

Everything there Kim Jong Il himself has declared as wholly true or has actually done.

I have to disagree with you there, Ben. Frankly, I tend to agree with whatever opinion can produce the most compelling evidence and is the least dis-provable. If that then becomes obsolete due to new evidence that we previously had no way of knowing then my own opinion will adapt.

Back when people thought the world was flat - well, it was and the sun did move across the sky, you could see it! That's because the common individual lacked the technology or academic know-how to figure out that the world was in fact a sphere - just a really big one. Thus with the evidence that they could produce, the earth was flat and the sun went round it.

Originally Posted by viscus

And there are a lot of people who are delusional, what's your point?

You can't say that they're telling the truth unless you can verify it somehow.

A baby is only evidence that two people had sex nine months prior. You have NOTHING.

Oh, and for the people that believe in things like reincarnation - don't tell them they're wrong and that they're delusional. They have their reasons to believe as you have yours to disbelieve. You may just have to agree to disagree and be nice about it. Belief and opinion is simply the interpretation of currently available evidence. Each to their own - play fair!

My own personal take on existance however is:

We exist because we do - I think therefore I am. The universer we see, hear, touch, smell and taste is simply our individual perception of what may or may not be real or a creation of our own minds - I think therefore you are.

This then leads to an interesting (and slightly brain-breaking) train of philosophical thought however. If the universe is defined purely by our individual perceptions of it - and the individual has no real reason to believe otherwise to be honest - then the only garaunteeable thing that is real is the individual in question. Can that individual then not change the universe around them by simply altering his perceptions willfully?

I suppose you could answer that with something like; "but seriously, it's not like you can grow yourself wings and fly or something?"

Since we've already established that reality is only definable in any real truth by the perceiving individual, I could say; "So what do you do in your dreams?"

Ergo, all counter arguements that reality is fixed are null and void.

Not sure if I really believe it myself as I try to keep an open mind about everything but it's sort of a pet theory and it does leave room for any other belief.

You may already have guessed but I know a lot of philosophy students.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Cruel Intentions

We exist because we do - I think therefore I am.

That right there tells me you've never actually read Descartes.

You don't know that many philosophy students, but rather you know many philosophy freshmen, am I correct?

[OnyxBat]

Originally Posted by Methadrine

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." -Albert Einstein

But I liked Saya's interpretation too.

That's what I tell my mom when she says "god is going go punish you". And to add to that article, most of us are not going to go forward because of our different religon that will hold us back from certain things and people.

[Cruel Intentions]

Originally Posted by Alan

That right there tells me you've never actually read Descartes.

You don't know that many philosophy students, but rather you know many philosophy freshmen, am I correct?

I admit, I've never read Descartes, nor would I want to. Those students tell me he's boring as hell and some of those students will be graduating with honours next summer. Hardly freshmen. I've not studied philosophy, granted, but then I never claimed to. Clearly it shows, why is it a problem?

I have however spent a great deal of time with occult groups so don't think me ignorant of the subject completely.

Whether Descartes himself has anything to do with it (considering I never actually mentioned him specifically) is besides the point. I merely use the phrase as an example of the point I was making - putting it in layman's terms if you will.

I do apologise if I didn't make it clear that it was in fact my own bastardised theory and not what I believe to be Descartes.

And I do believe you still lack a counter argument if you're going to discredit my argument like that. Or can we play nice?

[KontanKarite]

Holy shit, you new-agers are fucking annoying as hell.

"What I believe and what he believes may be contradictory, but this is totally okay and acceptable."

How the hell is that idea at all acceptable? Fucking new-agers. You guys really are just a bunch of fluffy idiots, aren't you?

Onyxbat and Cruel Intentions, I'm talking to you.

Fuck... I bet I just got trolled.

[Alan]

Basically you confused an epistemological reason with a metaphysical and from there you declared a "personal take" that actually has no philosophical grounds. That's what bothers me.
Your thing on dreams is actually good, but you went completely wrong with it, I would even say stupid.
The mentioning of how you can fly in dreams should make you assess the primacy of what is real over what isn't, but it is just stupid to assume that it means there is no answer to what IS real AND what ISN'T.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Cruel Intentions

This then leads to an interesting (and slightly brain-breaking) train of philosophical thought however. If the universe is defined purely by our individual perceptions of it - and the individual has no real reason to believe otherwise to be honest - then the only garaunteeable thing that is real is the individual in question. Can that individual then not change the universe around them by simply altering his perceptions willfully?

Our perceptions are limited because we can't possible store all the information of reality in our brains, its easier to filter it out, become biased. But the further from reality the go the chances of you becoming crazy increase! You can really believe you have wings but that might get you put on some heavy anti psychotics.

We often argue about the nature of reality, and yes everything we can know is limited to our minds, our perceptions, but thats our problem, not reality's. Everything is as it is.

[Ben Lahnger]

Cruel Intentions, not only did you miss the fact that my entire statement was a wry, sarcastic commentary on popular beliefs and not a seriously held notion, but the reasoning you put forward for your own view was pure twaddle.

Fuck ... I bet I just got trolled too!

[KontanKarite]

Cruel Intentions and Onyxbat both are either trolls or complete dipshits.

I think Onyxbat is really just a stupid teenager, so it's understandable and mostly excusable.

[Alan]

Cruel Intentions is clearly not a troll. Stop using that word for everything you disagree with. It's stupid, annoying, and way more trollish than the people you accuse.

Her (his?) post was planned ahead. It's not her fault that she's wrong. Give me half an hour and I will find at least two things each of you think that are fucking stupid, and not just in my opinion, but in their internal consistency.

[Cruel Intentions]

His.

And you didn't get trolled. And I realise that because there is no real answer in the theory I give the theory is in itself incredibly pretentious. I suppose it is new-agey in itself, I'll give you that but like I said, simply a pet theory, not really a belief I hold.

And I certainly do not consider myself a "new-ager". I like one idea. That doesn't bind me to their label. I like swimming, that doesn't make me an athlete.

Alan, as for dreams and reality, I am inclined to agree with you but I thought I'd just put the idea out there for the hell of it - open mind and all that.

Ben, why is requiring evidence in order to believe something twaddle? Sorry for misinterpreting your post, though. My bad.

Kotan, why can people who have differing beliefs not remain civil? That was my point.

However, what I object to from all three of you is being talked down to and insulted. I apologise for my own pretentiousness (and perhaps poor choice of words when referencing your posts) but grow up.

[KontanKarite]

Dude, he's likening occult interactions with actually being familiar with philosophy. Dude reads like he's baiting.

[OnyxBat]

And I think Kontankarite is a real prick who can not insult someone directly and there for he is a idiot who can not answer the post question.
You make it seam like I am a other species that is always misinform and your so perfect...which we (and I mean I) know you are not.
I have my own opinion uderstand that.

[Alan]

Are you a native English speaker?

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Cruel Intentions

Actually, you didn't get trolled. And I realise that because there is no real answer in the theory I give the theory is in itself incredibly pretentious. I suppose it is new-agey in itself, I'll give you that but like I said, simply a pet theory, not really a belief I hold.

And I certainly do not consider myself a "new-ager". I like one idea. That doesn't bind me to their label. I like swimming, that doesn't make me an athlete.

Alan, as for dreams and reality, I am inclined to agree with you but I thought I'd just put the idea out there for the hell of it - open mind and all that.

Ben, why is requiring evidence in order to believe something twaddle? Sorry for misinterpreting your post, though. My bad.

Kotan, why can people who have differing beliefs not remain civil? That was my point.

However, what I object to from all three of you is being talked down to and insulted. I apologise for my own pretentiousness (and perhaps poor choice of words when referencing your posts) but grow up.

You can remain as civil as you damn well please, but truth be told, conflicting ideas are CONFLICTING. A civil disagreement still holds to the axiom that one thinks his or her idea is better than the other. To its crux, there is nothing really civil about conflicting ideas coexisting. Either one is right or neither one is right. Agreeing to disagree doesn't SOLVE the conflict, it just deflates its escalation.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by OnyxBat

And I think Kontankarite is a real prick who can not insult someone directly and there for he is a idiot who can not answer the post question.
You make it seam like I am a other species that is always misinform and your so perfect...which we (and I mean I) know you are not.

No, I'm not perfect in the least bit. I never said I was. BUT I can tell you that when it comes to metaphysical beliefs, my ideas are WAY better than yours.

[Cruel Intentions]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Dude, he's likening occult interactions with actually being familiar with philosophy. Dude reads like he's baiting.

The occult involves phillosophy doesn't it?

And unfortunately, very unfortunately, people are allowed to be wrong. That's what I ask you to respect.

Ok, so I'm not an expert. I'm a bored 22yr old with half a hobby. That is the long and short of my interest in philosophy and with this thread.

I am not a troll, I have better things to do. And if you'd care to keep your prejudices to yourself (and others could drop the insults) could we get this thread back on topic?

[OnyxBat]

So now this is a "who's beliefs is better than the other" your pathetic.

[KontanKarite]

You guys can sling insults at me all you like, I just said your ideas were stupid.