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Old 07-15-2013, 04:50 PM   #51
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I have been following this. Given your backhanded request for where I got my info from, I'll be more than happy to give you a run down.

First off, there was more than one 911 call.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1354909.html

There's Zimmerman's, in which he, says "Those assholes always get away". In and of it's self can seem innocuous enough, given the context and the later events could be considered indicative of his intent to confront Martin.

There's a call where screaming can be heard in the background that is practically cut off at the time the gunshot is heard. As well as other calls describing cries and a gunshot.

Here's a link to Rachel Jeantel's witness testimony in which she describes the conversation which covers the timeline up to Zimmerman catching up to Martin. Martin asking why he's being followed and Zimmerman demanding to know why Martin's there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfxtYxxUDvc

That's why I think George Zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin down. He had absolutely no business doing so, no business asking a private citizen their business, let alone following them along in a car and then on foot to do so.

I don't see how it can possibly be self defense when one tracks another person down after they've tried to get away.

On top of that, Zimmerman and his wife managed to lie the courts about their available income. So, I have a hard time taking what he says at face value, as not only does he have a history of lying, he has every reason to in this case.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16552075

On top of that, after the event, back at the police station, footage shows Zimmerman lacking abrasions on the back of his head, no bleeding or bandages. Can't really see his face very clearly, but from what I can tell, it isn't bleeding or bandaged either.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7403692n
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:37 PM   #52
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When you have the moral high ground of social justice outrage, you don't need any of that nonsense.
When you say it like that, you kinda sound like a super villain. I kind of hear it like a super snakey lisp. "Damn you Social Jusssstice Team, you've ssspoken for the lassst time."

As much as you drive me nuts, I still think you're a cutie. *cheek pinch*
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:04 PM   #53
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Judas, was Zimmerman justified in shooting and killing Martin? Why or why not?
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:11 PM   #54
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When you say it like that, you kinda sound like a super villain. I kind of hear it like a super snakey lisp. "Damn you Social Jusssstice Team, you've ssspoken for the lassst time."

As much as you drive me nuts, I still think you're a cutie. *cheek pinch*
Aw shucks.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:11 AM   #55
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It's a given that any high profile trial will result in juror book deals, see Casey Anthony, Scott Peterson, etc, etc, etc. It's an industry.
But not this time. An online petition made the publisher think twice.

http://www.uproxx.com/webculture/201...37s-book-deal/
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:37 AM   #56
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Good! I'd love to see some variation of the Son of Sam law that applied to all parties involved in a court case.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:52 AM   #57
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But not this time. An online petition made the publisher think twice.

http://www.uproxx.com/webculture/201...37s-book-deal/
Good. There's something particularly sketchy about this one. She waited less than two days to announce it, and she's supposed to be writing with her husband, a lawyer. What does he know about the case in that time that makes him an expert, unless she was talking to him about the trial while it was ongoing, which is a big no no.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:08 AM   #58
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Her attempt at using the jury sequestration as a face saving rationalization was particularly transparent, but at least one publishing house made a good decision.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:05 PM   #59
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Good! I'd love to see some variation of the Son of Sam law that applied to all parties involved in a court case.
Agreed, even if I watch shows like "American Justice" and "City Confidential" I think the only ones who should be able to discuss the case are ones who aren't doing so to make a buck. But sadly, that's rarely the case.

I also second that Saya; very shady on the juror's part to strike a book deal the day after the case was ruled. I truly wonder who's idea it was to pocket money off of the tragedy. The lawyer husband or the juror? The question boggles my mind but some things will never be known, just like who let the dogs out.
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ape descendant View Post
I have been following this. Given your backhanded request for where I got my info from, I'll be more than happy to give you a run down.

First off, there was more than one 911 call.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1354909.html
I'm aware of that. However, since I was quoting Zimmerman and the dispatcher that Zimmerman spoke to, it should be quite clear which one I was referring to.

Quote:
There's Zimmerman's, in which he, says "Those assholes always get away". In and of it's self can seem innocuous enough, given the context and the later events could be considered indicative of his intent to confront Martin.
That's speculative at best.

Quote:
There's a call where screaming can be heard in the background that is practically cut off at the time the gunshot is heard. As well as other calls describing cries and a gunshot.
And there's a series of audio analyses, some of which say "it was Martin screaming" and others that say "it was Zimmerman screaming."

Quote:
Here's a link to Rachel Jeantel's witness testimony in which she describes the conversation which covers the timeline up to Zimmerman catching up to Martin. Martin asking why he's being followed and Zimmerman demanding to know why Martin's there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfxtYxxUDvc
That video is an hour and forty minutes long. Where does the part you refer to begin?

Quote:
That's why I think George Zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin down. He had absolutely no business doing so, no business asking a private citizen their business, let alone following them along in a car and then on foot to do so.
There were also no laws saying he couldn't, so what is or is not his business is irrelevant.

Quote:
I don't see how it can possibly be self defense when one tracks another person down after they've tried to get away.
There is still no evidence that Zimmerman tracked Martin down.

Quote:
On top of that, Zimmerman and his wife managed to lie the courts about their available income. So, I have a hard time taking what he says at face value, as not only does he have a history of lying, he has every reason to in this case.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16552075
If Zimmerman had every reason to lie, what's the media's excuse? They've been lying about the case from the beginning.

Quote:
On top of that, after the event, back at the police station, footage shows Zimmerman lacking abrasions on the back of his head, no bleeding or bandages. Can't really see his face very clearly, but from what I can tell, it isn't bleeding or bandaged either.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7403692n
A video that shows bad lighting and bad resolution is not evidence of not wounds. You can't see what's on the cops' badges, either, should we assume there's nothing? However, there are photographs of his wounds, albeit most are from after he was cleaned up...

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Old 07-16-2013, 01:56 PM   #61
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Judas, was Zimmerman justified in shooting and killing Martin? Why or why not?
When it comes down to the final confrontation, yes. Martin was on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the ground repeatedly. Putting myself into such a situation, I most certainly would be fearful for my life.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:51 PM   #62
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When it comes down to the final confrontation, yes. Martin was on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the ground repeatedly. Putting myself into such a situation, I most certainly would be fearful for my life.
Manslaughter is justified when it is a reaction to unlawful violence. Are you aware of what would make Martin's violence lawful?
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:40 PM   #63
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This is absolutely disgusting.

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Old 07-16-2013, 10:47 PM   #64
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Manslaughter is justified when it is a reaction to unlawful violence. Are you aware of what would make Martin's violence lawful?
That's actually an irrelevant question. Even if you're defending yourself, the moment you go from defending to trying to cause grievous harm you become in the wrong. Regardless of who struck first, once Martin started smashing Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk, Zimmerman was the one with the right to defend himself.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:51 PM   #65
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Acharis, while I definitely agree that Marissa Alexander is a victim of injustice, the bit about Zimmerman is false. His defense did not use "stand your ground." It was Zimmerman himself who decided not to use it.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...-in-april?lite

Here's the thing about the stand your ground law - if granted, the accused is granted immunity. Zimmerman would never have gone to trial if the law had been invoked and the judge agreed.

I won't comment on the Cece McDonald case because I know nothing of it.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:37 AM   #66
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That's actually an irrelevant question. Even if you're defending yourself, the moment you go from defending to trying to cause grievous harm you become in the wrong.
Wait, what? Grevious harm like shooting someone?

Quote:
Regardless of who struck first, once Martin started smashing Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk, Zimmerman was the one with the right to defend himself.
There's actually no forensic evidence to back that up. Had it been 25 times like Zimmerman said, he'd be in a lot worse shape. Trayvon had none of Zimmerman's blood or DNA on him, just a scrape on one of his knuckles. All the eyewitnesses played them on the grass, where Trayvon's body was found.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:23 AM   #67
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That's actually an irrelevant question. Even if you're defending yourself, the moment you go from defending to trying to cause grievous harm you become in the wrong. Regardless of who struck first, once Martin started smashing Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk, Zimmerman was the one with the right to defend himself.
That's actually a false statement. Self defense encompasses lethal force and allows you to lawfully kill somebody, allows for a preemptive strike (a sucker punch), and does not need to be in exclusive reaction reaction to violence. Even more, if met with continued resistance, self defense allows you to keep kicking the shit out of somebody.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:50 AM   #68
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holy crap, 'news' sites churning out articles about this while slathered in advertisements are profiting from every click, link, and comment. Yeah, juror ___ was a jerk, but isn't this pretty much the same kind of bad?
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:57 AM   #69
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Wait, what? Grevious harm like shooting someone?
Did you just agree that Zimmerman was defending himself? Now we're getting somewhere

Quote:
There's actually no forensic evidence to back that up. Had it been 25 times like Zimmerman said, he'd be in a lot worse shape. Trayvon had none of Zimmerman's blood or DNA on him, just a scrape on one of his knuckles. All the eyewitnesses played them on the grass, where Trayvon's body was found.
Actually, forensic evidence does exist.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...encounter?lite

Both Zimmerman and Martin had DNA from the other on them.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:55 PM   #70
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Did you just agree that Zimmerman was defending himself? Now we're getting somewhere



Actually, forensic evidence does exist.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...encounter?lite

Both Zimmerman and Martin had DNA from the other on them.
That's evidence that Martin was not on his back, not that they were fighting. Where in that article does it say Martin had Zimmerman's blood or DNA on him?
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:31 PM   #71
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Yo, if you'd even watched the first five minutes of Rachel Jeantel's testimony you'd know that they get to the night in question about 3 minutes in.

Her testimony puts Zimmerman as the one pursuing Martin, up to the point of catching up to him.

Zimmerman tracking Martin down and questioning him could very easily make Martin be in fear for his safety, especially if Zimmerman came across as hostile in questioning him (which he had no business doing anyway). If Zimmerman was afraid for his life up to that point he had the choice to stay with his car, Martin did not get a choice about Zimmerman being close to him.

How, in all the wide green earth, is shooting someone one chased down, self defense?
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:48 PM   #72
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TIL vigilantism is okay... so long as you chase black people.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:27 PM   #73
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It's not about vigilantism. Someone with authority could literally say "It's open season on blacks" and it wouldn't make a god damn bit of difference because the fucking system has more than enough control over our lives to ensure that white people are already entitled to our space and dignity. We do not have permission to resist; we must allow and accept it and pray for mercy, and god fucking help anyone that resists violently.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:42 PM   #74
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*nods* invisible words
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:09 PM   #75
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It's not about vigilantism. Someone with authority could literally say "It's open season on blacks" and it wouldn't make a god damn bit of difference because the fucking system has more than enough control over our lives to ensure that white people are already entitled to our space and dignity. We do not have permission to resist; we must allow and accept it and pray for mercy, and god fucking help anyone that resists violently.
You don't even have to violently resist. All you have to do is listen to your music loud and after someone tells you to turn it down they can still shoot you.

Original article:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...ictim-20130425

Follow up article:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...ictim-20130717
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