Gothic.net News Horror Gothic Lifestyle Fiction Movies Books and Literature Dark TV VIP Horror Professionals Professional Writing Tips Links Gothic Forum




Go Back   Gothic.net Community > Boards > Politics

Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-22-2006, 04:23 AM   #101
Blushing Heliophobe
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,055
Ha! Where's your tulips now?

Anyways. Yes, I believe the justice system should come from a rehabilitation mindset BUT if someone is a voilent or repeat offender, the public needs to be protected from that person.

My heart is not bleeding so much that I would choose to put innocent citizens - men, women, children - at risk. I may forgive you. But that doesn't mean you should have the right to exploit others with no adverse consequences.

It's one nation under God, but I distrust anyone who believes in a God that doesn't care about protecting the innocent.
Blushing Heliophobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 08:40 AM   #102
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
Wow, thats amazing, but once again, browsing the web can't compare to actual real life experiences.

Having been incarcerated in the states, which led to my dismissal from the us military, I can tell you loads about the legal system there.

Having just got out, done time with, and personally knowing the men arrested for the aforementioned men, well, think I might know a bit more about that as well.

Also, I help with the collection and sale of Republican Prisoner gifts. We go around the country to the prisons, collect the arts and crafts that are being made by the current Republican Prisoners, and sell them in booths and shops around the country. I am currently working on a website to display and sell these crafts, and will be happy to show you the site as soon as its done.

But my point being I travel to, meet with, and personally know, the prisoners, their stories, and see the men weekly.

It's nice that you found so many links, and yes, manslaughter vs murder is a different charge, but liek in the states, the men were arrested, charged with, and put on trial for murder. They were only found guilty of manslaughter. Thats the case with 90% of all murders in Ireland, so yes, manslaughter is less, but thats what most people do time for, as murder has to be haneous for a juge or jury to actually impose a murder sentence.

And trust me on that, I know from personal experience.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 09:39 AM   #103
Binkie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Beautiful U.S. of A.
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Wow, thats amazing, but once again, browsing the web can't compare to actual real life experiences.
This is funny, coming from someone who constantly ends their points with, "Google it."

Quote:
It's nice that you found so many links, and yes, manslaughter vs murder is a different charge, but liek in the states, the men were arrested, charged with, and put on trial for murder. They were only found guilty of manslaughter. Thats the case with 90% of all murders in Ireland, so yes, manslaughter is less, but thats what most people do time for, as murder has to be haneous for a juge or jury to actually impose a murder sentence.
You're right, they were put on trial for murder originally. But when the witnesses dropped out, the prosecution suddenly said they were willing to make a deal where they'd accept guilty pleas on the charge of manslaughter.
__________________
"[Brian Blair] was a punk. I can break his fucking back - break his back and make him humble and then fuck his ass ... Suplex him, put him in a camel clutch, break his back, and fuck his ass - make him humble. Teach him to respect the Iron Sheik. And I didn't do it, because for the God and Jesus, and Mr. McMahon." -Khosrow Vaziri (The Iron Sheik)
Binkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 04:12 PM   #104
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
Even if they had a witness, in most cases the dpp will drop charges down to manslaughter unless there is a reason. For example, look at the recent trial of Padraig Nally. He shot a man he caught on his land after beating him, and got 6 years for manslaughter. A good article on all this is located here:

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/articl...ud=38&aid=1186

The writer complains of a few recent cases where the person on trial is given a light sentence for manslaughter, but here, this is how we do it.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2006, 04:32 PM   #105
grimreaper993
 
grimreaper993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: .....
Posts: 50
The death penalty is Racist. There are much more accounts of Asians, African americans and Latinos being executed than there are caucasians. Personally, I am mega pissed at this. its wrong and it has killed another Vietnamese person. Haven't enough of my people died in the war? Whoever executed him is an asswipe beyond all imaginable standards. Sure it was wrong to smuggle the drugs but I think life in prison would be a more sane way to deal with this crime.
grimreaper993 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2006, 07:36 AM   #106
WolfMoon
 
WolfMoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I own Pitseleh!!
Posts: 3,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimreaper993
The death penalty is Racist. There are much more accounts of Asians, African americans and Latinos being executed than there are caucasians. Personally, I am mega pissed at this. its wrong and it has killed another Vietnamese person. Haven't enough of my people died in the war? Whoever executed him is an asswipe beyond all imaginable standards. Sure it was wrong to smuggle the drugs but I think life in prison would be a more sane way to deal with this crime.

Bullshit!

They're just trying to keep people from trafficking drugs in their country. If that idiot hadn't gotten caught someone else would have. Are you suggesting that they're targeting Aussies over there? Or that they're the ones that are dumb enough to get caught? I assure you that they've killed more than just people from Australia for the same things.

He should've realized the shit he was geting into before he shoved that first balloon in his ass. I don't agree with killing people on drug trafficking violations, but he was stupid enough to get caught doing it in Singapore of all places. He got what was coming to him.
WolfMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2006, 06:26 PM   #107
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
By that same line of reasoning though, women whoare stoned to death in muslim countries deserve it then as they were stupid enough to get caught doing something they knew was wrong and were aware of the penalties for?
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2006, 10:13 PM   #108
WolfMoon
 
WolfMoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I own Pitseleh!!
Posts: 3,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
By that same line of reasoning though, women whoare stoned to death in muslim countries deserve it then as they were stupid enough to get caught doing something they knew was wrong and were aware of the penalties for?
Damn you, Sternn!

WolfMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2006, 10:54 PM   #109
Cicero
 
Cicero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,065
The death penalty for anything disgusts me. There is absolutely no way of making sure someone is 100% guilty. And aside from the possible tragedy of murdering the innocent, when serial killers are executed, all the possible information they could provide on what caused their heinous crimes dies with them. Then there are the cases of the death penalty being imposed on crimes that most DEFINITELY don't deserve it.

In the case of Nguyen, what really got me was the fact that after all this, Singapore still claims to be so incredibly "advanced" and "modern". Well last I heard, advanced societies don't hang people. Let alone hang foreigners who weren't even a threat to their country. He was going to sell the drugs in Australia, therefore it was Australia's problem.

People keep saying "well he was stupid enough to get caught in Singapore..." but chances are, the only reason he was in Singapore was because that happened to be the stopover on the only flight he could get. He didn't think "Hmmm... now how can I take a real risk? I know! I'll pass through the anti-drug capital of the world!".

Nguyen was taking those drugs through to pay off the debts of his twin brother. That wasn't some evil drug lord smuggling heroin to buy a few more gold necklaces, that was someone trying to do something for the sake of a family member he loved. He didn't choose the smartest option of course, but everyone makes mistakes. The difference between people such as this and real criminals is that the real criminals aren't committing crimes to help anyone but themselves.

Knowing what the penalties were changes nothing. Nguyen's crime was out of desperation, and desperation blurrs everything out of perspective. The man with the starving family would be fully aware that stealing a loaf of bread is a crime. That wouldn't stop him.
Cicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2006, 11:30 PM   #110
Empty_Purple_Stars
 
Empty_Purple_Stars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Right Here
Posts: 3,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero

There is absolutely no way of making sure someone is 100% guilty.
Oh Really?

Care to back that Ludicrous statement up with some Facts?
Empty_Purple_Stars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 02:07 AM   #111
edible_eye
 
edible_eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,793


isn't it beautiful?

it's just... BEAU-TI-FUL!
__________________
"How many times can I say I'm not sorry? And how many ways can I show I don't care?" - Type O Negative
edible_eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 02:39 AM   #112
Magpie_Tendencies
 
Magpie_Tendencies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Australia. Finally back home.
Posts: 957
While I don't agree with the death penalty on principle and I think that hanging is barbaric, this guy knew what he was getting into. There have been many high profile cases in the media and he would have to have been deaf, dumb, blind and stupid not to realise that he was risking his life.

Also, had he succeeded in bringing in the drugs to Australia he would have hurt the addicts, the families of the addicts and the random people that the addicts robbed to get the money to pay for the drugs.

While I think it's wrong that he was killed for his crime, it still stands that he CHOSE to commit the crime in a country that supports the death penalty for drug smugglers. His mistake.
Magpie_Tendencies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 02:51 AM   #113
edible_eye
 
edible_eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,793
if one perpetrates 'X' and is caught, then one will be punished by 'Y'.

that's it.

he bet the house and lost.

such is life... or death.

one thing's for sure - he won't be trafficking drugs any longer.

buh-bye.

__________________
"How many times can I say I'm not sorry? And how many ways can I show I don't care?" - Type O Negative
edible_eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 05:06 PM   #114
Cicero
 
Cicero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
Oh Really?

Care to back that Ludicrous statement up with some Facts?
I can't think of any names right now, but I used to have quite an avid interest in forensic science, so I remember the basic gist of it. There have been so many cases where DNA turns out to have come from someone else, fingerprints have been tampered with, witnesses' minds get boggled, those in custody for the crime confess without reason, or people end up with a guilty verdict just because they can't afford a good defence lawyer. Of course there are the times when a whole 60 people see the murder take place and the suspect is found holding the gun and shouting "DIE YOU BASTARD!", then you have a pretty straightforward case; then again, in times like that the murderer is likely to plead insanity.

Now I'm not saying every criminal executed is innocent, I'm just saying that occassionally even the hardest evidence isn't correct. Though I will just clarify that the sorts of criminals I'm thinking of at the moment are low-key murderers, smugglers and thieves and such, war criminals and serial killers are in a whole other dimension from this - but it's those sorts of criminals that should be kept alive to be studied anyway.
Cicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 05:20 PM   #115
ExistentialDisorder
 
ExistentialDisorder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, S.C. (USA)
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero
I can't think of any names right now, but I used to have quite an avid interest in forensic science, so I remember the basic gist of it. There have been so many cases where DNA turns out to have come from someone else, fingerprints have been tampered with, witnesses' minds get boggled, those in custody for the crime confess without reason, or people end up with a guilty verdict just because they can't afford a good defence lawyer. Of course there are the times when a whole 60 people see the murder take place and the suspect is found holding the gun and shouting "DIE YOU BASTARD!", then you have a pretty straightforward case; then again, in times like that the murderer is likely to plead insanity.

Now I'm not saying every criminal executed is innocent, I'm just saying that occassionally even the hardest evidence isn't correct. Though I will just clarify that the sorts of criminals I'm thinking of at the moment are low-key murderers, smugglers and thieves and such, war criminals and serial killers are in a whole other dimension from this - but it's those sorts of criminals that should be kept alive to be studied anyway.

No they shouldn't. They should be killed, and quickly. the same way they killed their victims. the electric chair is far too kind.
__________________
~E.D.
~v~ ~v~ ~v~

"What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks?
Would you find yourself [or]
Find yourself afraid to see?..." -NIN
ExistentialDisorder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 05:33 PM   #116
Empty_Purple_Stars
 
Empty_Purple_Stars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Right Here
Posts: 3,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero
I can't think of any names right now, but I used to have quite an avid interest in forensic science, so I remember the basic gist of it. There have been so many cases where DNA turns out to have come from someone else, fingerprints have been tampered with, witnesses' minds get boggled, those in custody for the crime confess without reason, or people end up with a guilty verdict just because they can't afford a good defence lawyer. Of course there are the times when a whole 60 people see the murder take place and the suspect is found holding the gun and shouting "DIE YOU BASTARD!", then you have a pretty straightforward case; then again, in times like that the murderer is likely to plead insanity.

Now I'm not saying every criminal executed is innocent, I'm just saying that occassionally even the hardest evidence isn't correct. Though I will just clarify that the sorts of criminals I'm thinking of at the moment are low-key murderers, smugglers and thieves and such, war criminals and serial killers are in a whole other dimension from this - but it's those sorts of criminals that should be kept alive to be studied anyway.

But that not what you said..

You said;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero

There is absolutely no way of making sure someone is 100% guilty.
So I'm confused. Is that what you meant or not?
Empty_Purple_Stars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 08:29 PM   #117
Cicero
 
Cicero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,065
I meant that no amount of forensic science or hard evidence is enough to put someone to death. There's always that miniscule chance of innocence - and I mean miniscule to the billionth chance in some cases, but it's still there.

And to Existential Disorder... If you were a serial killer, caught and charged with horrendous crimes you were guilty of, what would you rather: Immediate (though painful) release through death, or a lifetime of being studied with needles poked into your brain and electro-shock therapy? I myself would choose the former, so for me I suppose the latter would be the better punishment.

And besides all that, there's the issue of the criminal's family. Chances are, murderers will have a mother, father, sister or brother who loves them despite their wrong-doings. Life imprisonment would be a punishment only to the criminal, execution is punishment to the criminal's family, friends and relatives who would have to endure bereavement. Sure, you could argue that that's fair punishment since victims' families endure the same thing. But why add more sadness to the world? That's just fighting fire with fire. For me knowing my sister was a cold blooded killer would be enough to devastate me beyond all comprehension. Losing her completely would throw me over the edge.

Argh, sorry about the long journeys into ranty-ville. I just really find capital punishment to be such an injustice.
Cicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2006, 01:29 AM   #118
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
I feel the same way. Much like the simple argument many make about doing the same to the person who wronged you, I find it hard to believe hurting someone else is going to make your life any better.

Like if a poor person stole something from you to feed his family, then your supposed to be court ordered to steal from him his family to hurt his family in the same amount?

So if say two men get into a heated argument in a bar, and one gets hit with a pool cue and dies, then the other mans family should be compensated by having the first families father executed? Thats basically what I'm reading here.

So having 2 families then, without a primary bread-winner and 2 families without a strong male influence or father figure makes the world somehow better?

Thats the things most people are forgetting here. Your not just 'killing a criminal'. Your killing a human, a person with a mother a father, possibly siblings and children. I think yeah, pushiment is in order, but if your going to execute a person, then you need to be willing to explain it to their kids later why your blood lust led to the death of their father.

I mean, if we look back at the start of this thread, your talking about two young adults who got caught holding drugs. They still have families who will suffer. Why? Because some 3rd world government thinks drugs are bad? I mean, they hand out needles in Amsterdam and allow you to shoot up in public parks on Saturdays under the noses of the police who patrol there. So because of one governments view on a topic, his mother/father/family now must live without their son, and his kids without their father...for what reason?

I say anyone who supports it should sit down with the children and explain it. Better yet, explain why in a country like say India where they can still legally stone you for marrying outside your caste, or Pakistan where women who marry without their fathers permission can be stoned, yeah explain why thats a good idea as well, as if the death penalty is justifiable in one culture based on the laws of some men and a beurocracy, than you have tio also argue that it should be legal in other countries under their laws as well.

Just because you consider yourself more 'civil' than another country doesn't make it so. To an EU country, where there is no death penalty, every country that enforces the death penalty appears quite barbaric.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2006, 09:54 AM   #119
Nike
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: nomad
Posts: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero
I meant that no amount of forensic science or hard evidence is enough to put someone to death. There's always that miniscule chance of innocence - and I mean miniscule to the billionth chance in some cases, but it's still there.

And to Existential Disorder... If you were a serial killer, caught and charged with horrendous crimes you were guilty of, what would you rather: Immediate (though painful) release through death, or a lifetime of being studied with needles poked into your brain and electro-shock therapy? I myself would choose the former, so for me I suppose the latter would be the better punishment.

And besides all that, there's the issue of the criminal's family. Chances are, murderers will have a mother, father, sister or brother who loves them despite their wrong-doings. Life imprisonment would be a punishment only to the criminal, execution is punishment to the criminal's family, friends and relatives who would have to endure bereavement. Sure, you could argue that that's fair punishment since victims' families endure the same thing. But why add more sadness to the world? That's just fighting fire with fire. For me knowing my sister was a cold blooded killer would be enough to devastate me beyond all comprehension. Losing her completely would throw me over the edge.

Argh, sorry about the long journeys into ranty-ville. I just really find capital punishment to be such an injustice.

I agree with everything you say.

It has been the case, that innocents were put to death, and I don't think there will be any way ever to be entirely sure of someone's guilt or not in difficult cases. Also, criminals react to the new techniques, too, and sometimes seem to find ways to blame someone else for their deeds, I have an intereseting article about that at home somewhere, but I cannot post any "proof" for what I am saying at the moment, I am sorry.

Also, I think many cases proof, that "justice" is not always fair, and unfortunatley it seems we aren't all the same when it comes to law, simply because of that fact that it's human beings who are responsible for justice, and humans aren't perfect. That's what I believe, at least.

What about Mumia Abu-Jamal, for instance? A critical journalist, who has never been involved in any crimes before, sentenced to death by a pretty obscure court with missing witnesses etc. in Pennsylvania 1982. He and his family are still fighting for his life, and he keeps saying he is innocent, and new forensic methods, new ballistic theories etc. seem to support what he says.

"I remain innocent. A court cannot make an innocent man guilty. Any ruling founded on injustice is not justice. The righteous fight for life, liberty, and for justice can only continue." Mumia Abu-Jamal , Oct. 31, 1998

You can easily find everything you want to know about the case of Mumia Abu-Jamal in the internet, if you are not familiar with it, and I can also recommand to read his books, he has written while being in prison.

It is true, what CptSternn says, every country has different standards for what to call civil, and it is true, that in European Countries Death Penalty is seen as something -well, barbaric. We are getting along fine without it. I don't want to say, that the European system is perfect when it comes to how to deal with crime, because there is no such thing as perfection and we will always have to keep trying to make things better, but to be honest, I am very happy we don't have Death Penalty here.

well, I think that's all I err, feel I've got so say now
__________________
"The reason why truth is so much stranger than fiction is that there is no requirement for it to be consistent."
Mark Twain
Nike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2006, 11:32 AM   #120
Binkie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Beautiful U.S. of A.
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nike
What about Mumia Abu-Jamal, for instance? A critical journalist, who has never been involved in any crimes before, sentenced to death by a pretty obscure court with missing witnesses etc. in Pennsylvania 1982. He and his family are still fighting for his life, and he keeps saying he is innocent, and new forensic methods, new ballistic theories etc. seem to support what he says.

"I remain innocent. A court cannot make an innocent man guilty. Any ruling founded on injustice is not justice. The righteous fight for life, liberty, and for justice can only continue." Mumia Abu-Jamal , Oct. 31, 1998
What new ballistic theories? Two ballistics experts, one even chosen by the defense, concluded at the bullet holes were .38 cal (not .44 cal, which was written by a medical examiner in notes that are, according to him, disregarded in trials because he has no experience and is in no way qualified to measure ballistics). The five slugs removed from the officer belonged to five spent shells that remained IN Jamal's revolver (which was being carried around in a holster at the time). The markings on the slugs matched the barrel's groves. That's pretty clear-cut. Someone would have had to carefully unstrapped the revolver from Jamal's chest holster and fired all five bullets into the officer in order for him to be innocent. Nothing implicates that as having happened.

This is just another 'high profile' activism case that's riddled with more conspiracy theories than the JFK assassination. Most people who usher in support for the release of Jamal are just anti-death penalty activists, capitalizing off of a multitude of death penality cases. A group was disappointed not too long ago when DNA testing of an Ohio man, put to death for the **** and murder of a 16 year old girl, irrefutablely implicated his guilt. Not sure why interest remains in Mumia Abu Jamal's case by these activists. He's no longer on death-row.

The court system here is designed to review evidence and prior conditions of a court case and sentencing. Jamal's case went to the Federal level and still he's been found repeatedly guilty. The legal system carefuly reviews death penalty cases, of which 67% are generally overturned (including Jamal's). To this date, there is no proof of an innocent man or woman being executed in the US (since 1900).
__________________
"[Brian Blair] was a punk. I can break his fucking back - break his back and make him humble and then fuck his ass ... Suplex him, put him in a camel clutch, break his back, and fuck his ass - make him humble. Teach him to respect the Iron Sheik. And I didn't do it, because for the God and Jesus, and Mr. McMahon." -Khosrow Vaziri (The Iron Sheik)
Binkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2006, 02:29 PM   #121
Nike
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: nomad
Posts: 336
Well, I had my information from Amnesty International chapter Ballistic Evidence" here:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/do...25686C00526C98

Usually Amnesty is doing quite good research.

To be honest, it is some years back that I was reading much about Abu-Jamal. I read through a few other sites now, too, faulkner.com (I'm not sure about the adress), the wikipedia article, supporters sites, and, well, from reading all this I can't come to any conclusion whether he is guilty or not, because many facts are somehow contradictionary.

I put Jamal merely as an example, not to start a discussion about his trial and whether he is guilty or not, because, I am afraid, this wouldn't lead to any result.
Maybe I should have indicated that more carefully, and maybe I should have found a better example, but, I think it shows that sometimes it is hard to get a clear view of facts by the information you recieve in courts, while trials etc.

I have attended some triles when we were studying Latin law in school, and I could see myself, how hard it often is, to only get an idea of a scene, and that it is not like you can see it in the movies, that the truth is revealing itselves.

Abu-Jamal, however -yes, he is no longer on death row, but I also think, that Jamal recieved a lot of public attention, because he was a journalist, knew how to use media well, and was - at least to a small crowd-already known. Others might not have that *bonus*.
I do believe you, that the US are reviewing death penalty cases very carefully, and still, I think there are a lot of cases where it is hard to find an exact proof whether someone is guilty or not. We are humans, and we make mistakes. Sometimes we find out about them, sometimes not.

Regardless of that, I have to admit, that I am against Death Penalty in general and I am supporting the ideals and actions by AI, not only regarding Death Penalty, but for the protection of Human Rights in general, for human rights are a key element for me.
__________________
"The reason why truth is so much stranger than fiction is that there is no requirement for it to be consistent."
Mark Twain
Nike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2006, 04:46 PM   #122
Binkie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Beautiful U.S. of A.
Posts: 1,241
I agree with you on the fact that it is hard to decern whether or not individuals are absolutely guilty. I don't, however, aggree with Cicero that you can't be 100% sure of someone's guilt in the case of murder or ****. Not without relying on conspiracy theories that have virtually no credibility in a court room. However, in the case of Jamal, there was alot of, to speak frankly, "bullshit" that was going on. At least on behalf of the police that were dealing with it. Alot of the cops that were, in part, responsible for cohercing statements ended up being convicted on those exact charges later on down the line (mid 90s). The people that they afflicted in trial with their actions were pardoned or reduced in sentencing.

There is alot of corruption going on, but the legal system weeds these guys out, or at least I'd like to think it does for the most part before anyone is put to death over their actions. In the case of Jamal, things were obviously askew in evidence gathering and the trial and his death pentalty sentencing was overturned. Rightfully so, I believe.

I'm not going to argue whether or not the Death Penalty is right or wrong. I just don't want to step into an arguement over morals. I will say this though; actions in some countries have consequences such as the death penalty. Unfortunetly that's a fact of life for some. Whether or not that's right or wrong, the legal system in the US carefully reviews weither or not a man or woman is truely guilty before putting them to death. Not all cases obviously point to someone being 100% guilty, but for the most part, the justices and jury put their trust in the trial, evidence, testimony, and Civil Law in general and base their decisions as best they can off of those to deal justice. When they are not correct, the Appeals or Federal courts step in.
__________________
"[Brian Blair] was a punk. I can break his fucking back - break his back and make him humble and then fuck his ass ... Suplex him, put him in a camel clutch, break his back, and fuck his ass - make him humble. Teach him to respect the Iron Sheik. And I didn't do it, because for the God and Jesus, and Mr. McMahon." -Khosrow Vaziri (The Iron Sheik)
Binkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2006, 09:56 AM   #123
WolfMoon
 
WolfMoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I own Pitseleh!!
Posts: 3,747
*I meant that no amount of forensic science or hard evidence is enough to put someone to death.*

Yeah cuz, ya know, Dahmer was just a real lonely and misunderstood individual. I know I like to keep a date in the deep freeze for those lonely nights, as well.

Seriously, despite the fact that Dahmer was the only serial killer that I've ever seen true remorse in, he deserved the brutal manner of death that he recieved. If I were a murderer I'd definately choose to be on Death Row instead of dying. Some people are cowards like that.
WolfMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2006, 10:23 PM   #124
Cicero
 
Cicero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,065
I'm not saying don't punish them.

But on the aspect of serial killers... destroying perfect specimens of psychos like Dahmer and Chikatilo is such a waste anyway. We still know very little of how the minds of these killers work, which is why they should be kept alive so that we can find out. After all the pain these people have caused, the least we can do is use their brains as a way of learning (and possibly preventing) what leads them to commit such heinous acts.
Cicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2006, 11:20 AM   #125
CptSternn
 
CptSternn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,587
Is this thread going to turn into a discussion of prison conditions? I could go on for pages on that!

But one quick reply to the previous post -

Yeah, the people in there aren't living better than you. If you really think that, try it out. Having been in multiple prisons in multiple countries, I can give you first hand experience information.

Yeah, you get all that, and depending on where you are locked up in the states you can get your own TV, satellite connection for your cell, and a playstation. But you can't leave. So being locked in a 8x12 box, having to use the toilet in front of 4 other people all the time and being forced to eat food that is pretty much the same as high school cafeteria food every meal, well, it's not as posh as you think.

The US prison system is the largest in the world. There are more people in prison than any other country. In fact 14% of americans are currently in prison. 1 in every 5 americans is in prison, or has been in prison. This means, 20% of americans are cons or ex-cons. If you start screwing with their food, rights, and these things, thats a large group your going to anger. Also note that most prisons are well over 100% capacity, which is why the US builds so many new ones every year. If the prisoners wanted to riot, they take over the whole prison. The administration and government doesn't like trouble, so the idea is to keep the prisoners busy and happy so no one pays attention to the prison culture in the states.

If every prison cut back food, cut off pen pals, took away telly, you would have prison riots across the country. The national guard and state police are called in for 1 riot. When you have 5-10 prisons in each state, there isn't enough man power to stop that many riots, so ironically, the state in many ways is at the mercy of the prisoners.

Doesn't bother them though, as most peoplel don't know a few things about prisons. For example, you know why politicians love prisons? They inmates count as constituants. Thats right, if they have a prison that holds 300,000 prisoners in a Senators district, they count on the census. So a rep from a small county with maybe 5,000 people there looks like he comes from a large city cuz of the inamtes in his district. When the government gives him money for his district, they look at those overall census figures, and 5,000 people get the money allocated for 305,000, and barely any goes to the prisoners while the people in the small county will get the bulk.

I could go on for days, but you get the idea.
CptSternn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Evangelicals play role in Uganda anti-gay death penalty legislation Saya Spooky News 16 01-14-2010 05:37 PM
my mom sucks freddy666 Whining 57 11-15-2008 09:47 AM
Good News for Those with Infants. tenet_2012 Spooky News 2 03-28-2006 11:40 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:06 AM.