Emo's are cool.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Madarame

To be be honest I feel that this makes a lot more sense than the crap I posted.
It still seems to me though that people who express emotions like sadness and anger are often pressured to express them only to therapists and the like, likely because of the studies on mental health and the realization that "sane" people can break down. From what I know it still seems as though expressing these sorts of emotions (at least with any regularity) is considered somewhat "wrong" and that the person needs help, likely this is correct though and it all has a lot more to do with the way mental illness is looked at and diagnosed than with subcultures.
I am of course speaking with very limited knowledge so likely much of this is way off the mark.

It's a fine line, I think. On the one hand, emotions -do- need to be expressed, because holding them in can oftentimes only make the person more ill. But, then again, some people use their emotions as an excuse to commit horrible acts of violence and illegal activity, and that's not good either.

Personally, I'm all about therapy and proper medication, if someone is seriously ill from, say, clinical depression or out-of-control hormones. I think also that, in some cases, it's much better and safer for the person to express their feelings in a therapy session than it would be to express them to, say, a well-meaning co-worker.

There is also the fact that dealing with someone who is out-of-control emotionally is a -very- draining thing for family and friends; I've been on both ends of it, and...well...it's not fun to watch someone you love lose it. And, realistically, there's only so much family and friends can do.

That being said, I've also got to say there are proper and improper ways to express anger. Telling your boss that you are displeased with the cut in pay, and talking in calm, reasonable tones [as much as you can manage] is -much- more acceptable than walking into his office with a golf club and pummeling him to death.

At the same time, though, to not say anything at all and just sit and let the anger brew inside is much more likely to eventually lead to the pummeling scenario than anything else.

Self-control and proper communication ftw, yo.

[Mir]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

:3

I'm thinking of getting on a happy pill called Yaz. It's birth control that also regulates hormones.

Birth control pills are evil. I don't get it. The side effects far outweigh any perceived benefit. There are better contraceptives out there, that you might want to consider.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Mir

Birth control pills are evil. I don't get it. The side effects far outweigh any perceived benefit. There are better contraceptives out there, that you might want to consider.

I'm not looking for contraceptives, though; I'm looking for something to regulate my hormones.

I think I may have PMDD, which is similar to PMS except in an extreme, and a serious disorder. And I've heard that women with the disorder...or with hormone difficulties in general...benefit a lot from birth control pills.

But, then again I could be wrong. I have to look into it a bit more. [Trust me, taking a pill every day isn't my idea of fun either. :/]

[Noumi]

Have you guys seen this girl hope, from hope is emo? haha, those videos are just riddiculous...
type hope is emo in youtube if you want to see.

[Duane]

Hm, whoa whoa, she must be emo! Lolz, funny video.

[Mir]

Maybe she's a goth, who is really trying to be an emo? Ha.

[Noumi]

I don´t really know what she is, she´s not exactly the person I would share room with...
:S

[Mir]

Speak for yourself, ha!

[Tam Li Hua]

*snicker*

Wow. Just wow.

*more snickering*

[Mir]

Tam Li Hua! Boo!

Oh, and before you take those pills, see a doctor. =P

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Mir

Tam Li Hua! Boo!

Oh, and before you take those pills, see a doctor. =P

Boo yourself.

And indeed, I will; I'm far too picky about such things. XD

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Madarame

To be be honest I feel that this makes a lot more sense than the crap I posted.
It still seems to me though that people who express emotions like sadness and anger are often pressured to express them only to therapists and the like, likely because of the studies on mental health and the realization that "sane" people can break down. From what I know it still seems as though expressing these sorts of emotions (at least with any regularity) is considered somewhat "wrong" and that the person needs help, likely this is correct though and it all has a lot more to do with the way mental illness is looked at and diagnosed than with subcultures.
I am of course speaking with very limited knowledge so likely much of this is way off the mark.

Yeah, that's the kicker - the country wants you to be healthy, but the therapy industry also wants your money. So we're told that our sadness "needs to be expressed", but that this is only really going to help alleviate the burden if it's expressed to a therapist. I firmly believe there's some kind of conspiracy going on in the mental health industry to convince us that normal social pressures and everyday problems are so overwhelming, only a therapist can set us straight. How do they do this? They make it sound official - hence, it's not "sadness", but "clinical depression".

Of course, people lap it up, because we love anything that tells us we're not responsible for the bad things we do, whether it's withdrawing from life to live in a cocoon of self-pity or punching someone in the face. People like to let someone else take control for a while, given half a chance.

There's nothing mysterious about it. It's the same reason most people into BDSM are subs. Couple it with marketing and you've got a scam so transparent, I don't get how so many people eat it up.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Yeah, that's the kicker - the country wants you to be healthy, but the therapy industry also wants your money. So we're told that our sadness "needs to be expressed", but that this is only really going to help alleviate the burden if it's expressed to a therapist. I firmly believe there's some kind of conspiracy going on in the mental health industry to convince us that normal social pressures and everyday problems are so overwhelming, only a therapist can set us straight. How do they do this? They make it sound official - hence, it's not "sadness", but "clinical depression".

Of course, people lap it up, because we love anything that tells us we're not responsible for the bad things we do, whether it's withdrawing from life to live in a cocoon of self-pity or punching someone in the face. People like to let someone else take control for a while, given half a chance.

There's nothing mysterious about it. It's the same reason most people into BDSM are subs. Couple it with marketing and you've got a scam so transparent, I don't get how so many people eat it up.

1. Not all therapy is hella expensive. In fact, there are many types of counseling available that are free. There are programs sponsored by non-profit organizations, support groups, and, if you want a real therapist, more and more operate on a sliding scale, and only charge what you think you can afford.

2. Some of us actually need a therapist. There are things that family and friends, no matter how loving or how wonderful, just can't handle alone. If I hadn't decided to see a therapist after my mom died, I don't know what I would have done. No one else knew how to help or handle me.

3. Only someone who has never had to have therapy...or, has had only one, very bad experience...would say that they don't see how it possibly does any good.

*crosses fingers, hopes this posts this time..*

[Tam Li Hua]

Addition to #1: Depending on the client's condition and the therapist, the client may even be able to get insurance to pay the majority of cost.

By the way, there's a -great- deal of difference between simply being sad, and being clinically depressed. It is -not- the same thing at all.

Sadness doesn't debilitate you to the point where you can't even get out of bed in the morning, even if nothing is actually wrong.

Seriously, learn the difference yo. =P

[Mir]

Basically, the gist of this discussion is that, people need to start taking responsibility for their actions.

That was not aimed at the clinically depressed.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Mir

Basically, the gist of this discussion is that, people need to start taking responsibility for their actions.

That was not aimed at the clinically depressed.

Indeed. Taking responsibility seems to have become an unpopular thing in our society.

So has admitting that we can't do everything ourselves, and may need outside help on occasion.

[Mir]

I'd ask for help if I was trying to lift a heavy box. =P

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

1. Not all therapy is hella expensive. In fact, there are many types of counseling available that are free. There are programs sponsored by non-profit organizations, support groups, and, if you want a real therapist, more and more operate on a sliding scale, and only charge what you think you can afford.

This is true, but doesn't refute my argument. I see at as more of a cultural phenomenon than totally down to the search for a buck, but there's no denying that where there is a market, the market will be filled, and part of making money off of this is generating demand. So it's no wonder that so many of the people we see every day, on TV and in magazines, for example, telling us we need therapy to help us cope with NORMAL pressures, are therapists.

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

2. Some of us actually need a therapist. There are things that family and friends, no matter how loving or how wonderful, just can't handle alone. If I hadn't decided to see a therapist after my mom died, I don't know what I would have done. No one else knew how to help or handle me.

I am not knocking people who have therapy for traumatic events. If you've been through an intensely frightening experience, **** or robbery for example, I'm sure it has its value. I'm talking about the whole culture of therapy in everyday life, which tries to convince us that we're too frail to deal with normal, everyday experiences, like the pressures of school. Bereavement to me is not something I would seek counselling for as I see it as a normal, if unpleasant, event, being something that most everyone goes through at some point. But I appreciate that everyone is different, and there's no denying it can be traumatic. The example you've given doesn't address where my beef is.

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

3. Only someone who has never had to have therapy...or, has had only one, very bad experience...would say that they don't see how it possibly does any good.

Actually, I don't think I said that exactly. I resent the whole culture associated with therapy, and see it mostly as a scam, but I don't deny that it needs to exist, to help people with significant problems (no, your mommy spanking you for trying to drink bleach as a kid doesn't count). But I also think the people who go when there's nothing really wrong with them just end up getting more neurotic. Sure, pain needs to be dealt with, but people nowadays think they're so damn fragile they'll break if there's something eating them. To tell the truth I'd like to see more people suck it up and turn to art - just my own pet theory, but it's always worked for me.

I have only encountered one therapist, who worked at my high school. And it wasn't "a very bad experience" at all. He was fine, nice even, only he kept trying to tell me I had emotional problems and digging around about my parents, when the truth is I was just easily bored. Nowadays they'd probably be testing me for ADD instead of just giving me a smack round the head.

With a therapist, EVERYTHING'S pathological.

[Tam Li Hua]

Apathy's_Child, I -will- grant you that some therapists go a bit overboard, and certainly not every single, minor set-back should require therapy for someone to be able to deal with it.

At the same time, I've known people that -couldn't- deal with the normal pressures of life because they had something deeply, emotionally/psychologically wrong with them. It wasn't their fault, and it may not even have been the fault of family or friends; it simply was what it was. [I don't mean general shyness; I mean more like serious mental and/or emotional disorders such as extreme bipolar disorder or PMDD.]

As for bereavement, normally, I would agree with you. My situation at that time was...unique. It was just one of many things that I needed to resolve regarding my family, a kind of climax to a much more convoluted story that I won't get into here. [If it means anything, it took me two years to be able to face her grave..]

About neurotic folks just going to therapy for the heck of it: This is why I would only recommend -good- counselors/therapists. A good counselor/therapist will be able to tell if the person actually needs help or not. Likewise, they will often scedule therapy for only a set amount of time, perhaps as an evauation, maybe something like one session a week for six weeks or something.

lol I only wish I could solve all my problems by just focusing on art, but sometimes, it just isn't that easy.

Boy, do I wish it was though; right now I'm thinking about going back into therapy, and it's not really something I -want- to do, but I may -need- to.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

At the same time, I've known people that -couldn't- deal with the normal pressures of life because they had something deeply, emotionally/psychologically wrong with them. It wasn't their fault, and it may not even have been the fault of family or friends; it simply was what it was. [I don't mean general shyness; I mean more like serious mental and/or emotional disorders such as extreme bipolar disorder or PMDD.]

I just don't believe that. I mean, I believe it can and does happen, but I don't think it's true for even a third of the people who are actually having regular therapy. But in any case, it's not my intention to pick on people who genuinely can't function without help.

It's the others........ they're everywhere....... [sharpens blade wit shifty eyes]

Art is an awesome way to deal. Even the therapy industry has realized, which I'd guess is why people in mental institutions are often encouraged tp paint and shit.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

I just don't believe that. I mean, I believe it can and does happen, but I don't think it's true for even a third of the people who are actually having regular therapy.

Heh heh. On that point, I think we're in complete agreement. XD While I believe therapy is necessary in some situations, perhaps you're right in that it's a bit overblown sometimes..

But in any case, it's not my intention to pick on people who genuinely can't function without help.

It's the others........ they're everywhere....... [sharpens blade wit shifty eyes]

Watch out for that camera in your soup! >:O

Art is an awesome way to deal. Even the therapy industry has realized, which I'd guess is why people in mental institutions are often encouraged tp paint and shit.

Mmm, good point. ^_^ It -does- help to focus and calm one. And some of the best art, literature and music have come from severely disturbed people.

Soo, here's the question: Would you rather be deeply disturbed and a brilliant artist, or perfectly healthy and sane, and a poor/mediocre artist?

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Soo, here's the question: Would you rather be deeply disturbed and a brilliant artist, or perfectly healthy and sane, and a poor/mediocre artist?

I'm an alcoholic, a sexual pervert and a brilliant artist - does that count?

Making great art means you're channeling something important, so I guess I'd rather be fucked up and a great artist. I say that only because society's version of fucked up generally precludes severe mental illness - if that was the case I'm pretty sure I'd rather suck.

[Catch]

I don't think mental illnesses and being creative side line eachother.

[Mir]

Not necessarily, but it does happen often enough for someone to draw such a conclusion.

[Apathy's_Child]

I'm of the mind that art in general usually involves a reflection of anxieties. People who are in touch with anxiety are more likely to do two things: try to resolve them, which they often (though not always) do through art, and to seek out ways to take the edge of them, which often brings them to alcohol / drugs. It would explain why there's so often a correlation.