God does not exist. - Page 2

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:06 PM

The way I see god now is that God is what we do not know. God is the space between the quarks- and when we find out what is there, God will be the glue.

In many ways, god is getting smaller, but in many ways, god is getting larger.

Fundamentalists will say that overseeking such knowledges are wrong; that to know god is to trust blindly in some divine plan. But god Himself said that our goal is to strive evermore to become like god, aspire to become Christ- and what are gods and Cristos but all-loving, all-being, and all-knowing?

Bat Attack · 12-12-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMac

God is just a word for an idea. Some people's idea is Charleton Heston, some is something like a nebula, some are neurons.

If God came from religion, then this cannot be correct.
And if religion came from God, it still cannot be correct.

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

It's hard to believe all the people that say this actually believe it when they go about attributing all sorts of arbitrary qualities to this idea.
Besides, if they really believed it, why do they insist in calling him God when I tell them it's more akin to Satya?

EDIT: Oh wait, if we read it as an idea of a supernatural being that can be as arbitrary as anyone chooses (e.g. a nebula) then the above argument doesn't count, but neither does the quote, as we're talking about reasons to believe, not beliefs.

God *is* arbitrary, god just isn't random. It fits into the spaces where nothing else will, so Satya, Truth, Muckity-puppy-fuck, and semanticize it all you like. God is just short-hand for what many believe in but lack descriptors for.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-12-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bat Attack

If God came from religion, then this cannot be correct.
And if religion came from God, it still cannot be correct.

Holy shit. You should say that to a stoner.

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bat Attack

If God came from religion, then this cannot be correct.
And if religion came from God, it still cannot be correct.

God came from humans, and humans created religion to put god in a box, and that is wrong.

Not arguing for the correctness of any of it, mind you. Just observations.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-12-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMac

God is just short-hand for what many believe in but lack descriptors for.

And it is irrational to give that any attributes.

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:12 PM

What part of any religion is rational, Jillian? It is a prescription of consequence that no one will live to see, but will keep them in line. Perfect crime- they fear to doubt.

Mir · 12-12-2008, 04:13 PM

After a long, drawn out argument with acquaintances on this, and related topics, on my way home, I realized the futility of it all. While we were happily arguing away, not one of us lifted a finger to help the millions enduring pain and suffering around the world. Through no fault of their own, other than being born in the wrong part of the world.

I may not be in an entirely good mood right now, but today is significant in that I am that much closer to doing something I have wanted to do for some time now.

Bat Attack · 12-12-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMac

God came from humans, and humans created religion to put god in a box, and that is wrong.

Not arguing for the correctness of any of it, mind you. Just observations.

By saying that God came from humans, are you saying that God is imaginary?
If humans CREATED God, then humans must BE God. If God is omnipotent, omniscient and whatever, then its creators must be too.

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:16 PM

God is no more imaginary than Santa Claus in terms of cause and intended effects. It's a hell of a way to get children to mind.

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:17 PM

Never much had use for public services, sermons, rites… What do you need to prove to others that you cannot prove to yourself?

These silly notions of speaking in the tongues of the elders to be closer to the older deity are among the worst. I am a proponent of learning as much as possible, do not get me wrong. But do not learn something for a pointless reason. Learning an older language or the Native language of a deity brings you closer to the Native's experience of that God, true. But- make no mistake, it is still a human language that references the divine. It makes sense anthropologically, but do not do it for some spiritual gratuity or elitism.

The difference between deity and humanity is an omni-everything. We are not what they made us, they are what we make them. Even the perception of Christ changes, moreso because of his frailty as a human being. Too much upon him we thrust our ideals, similarities and differences- forgetting he was an individual. He was Jesus before he was Christ. We change him, but he was human and the history will not change even though no one can recall it in fact.

We changed Freya. We changed Monos. We change them to suit our needs, but it is arguable that their essence is the same. Some cellular memory, some cells we all share back to the gills. Some odd god extract from which similar (or to some- the One) gods of different paths are linked. Is this some ethereal quirk or quark or is it the commonality among all humans to have a divinity of many aspects- whether encompassed in one Almighty god, or broken down into many aspects, many "lesser" gods.

There's a charged term. Lesser god- lesser simply because it is not all encompassing, because it being more close to being human for faults and fissures? Llew, Apollo, Ra… are they all lesser than the Judeo Christian god because they are just one aspect and not the be-all end all? Perhaps it is the one great god that is lesser because it cannot be anything other- it must be everything or it fails. When that god becomes fallible, it's over. So, great indeed, but one day, that god will crack. So much in one great god-bucket. No support system, save that this god is its own flying buttress. I wonder why we see god as a being and not a place?

Hubris, most likely.

He also looks like the prettiest among us, even though he teaches us to love all equally- should we love him more because he is beautiful? Beauty's reward is devotion, but should it also be reverence?

Bat Attack · 12-12-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Holy shit. You should say that to a stoner.

Hahaha, I should!

I originally just thought the first part, but then I reconsidered, and decided that the opposite must be the same.

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:20 PM

when you say it to a stoner, wave your hands really fast-like. May as well make them dizzy as well as confused. Then, before they get wholly lucid, wrap their hands and feet in aluminum foil. It;s funny.

Sanguine Mind · 12-12-2008, 04:20 PM

Why rain on someone's parade? If they belive in god let them, if anything it gives them something to hold onto.

I admit, there are extremists, the ones who are against gay marriage and abortion. But a belief in god has soothed many in trouble, or in pain.

Oh and for the record, I'm not Christian, I'm agnostic.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-12-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanguine Mind

Why rain on someone's parade? If they belive in god let them, if anything it gives them something to hold onto.

Why let someone in a desert keep thinking he's in an oasis?

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:23 PM

There are extremists in any tenet, including atheism. The extreme lefts are as grating as the extreme rights. But moderates rarely make the news.

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Why let someone in a desert keep thinking he's in an oasis?

Because he will die anyway.

May as well let the fairy tale give him comfort.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-12-2008, 04:26 PM

If I believed I have two invisible twin sisters next to me constantly making out I'd be locked up.

Bat Attack · 12-12-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanguine Mind

Why rain on someone's parade? If they belive in god let them, if anything it gives them something to hold onto.

If that's intended at us, we're not, we're merely discussing.
But yes, sometimes people believe in God, for hope, courage and optimism, things that they will almost definitely receive. (Not from God, but from theirselves, the belief in God helps them to do so).
It’s like a child with an imaginary friend. Although it does not exist, it still helps them, for example, it may eliminate their boredom.
It's also like, when a child is learning to cycle for the first time and they believe that someone is holding the back of their bike when they are not, but the belief that they are helps them to cycle.
So in that way, whether God does or does not exist, the belief still helps in some way.

Sanguine Mind · 12-12-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Why let someone in a desert keep thinking he's in an oasis?

I'm just saying, if they truely belive in god, then that's their buisness. And if praying helps them deal with thier problems, then I say let them.

And Mollymac, It's true there are extremists in every religion. Including

Godslayer Jillian · 12-12-2008, 04:29 PM

That's still no excuse to believe in him.
More and more people recur to saying that religion makes people happy so I should allow it. But why don't they talk about all the negative side of religion?
They're not happy, they're content!
Believing in a supreme being justifies authority.
Believing in karma justifies wrongdoing.
Believing in the afterlife justifies suffering.
Believing in personal religion justifies error.

Sanguine Mind · 12-12-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMac

Because he will die anyway.

May as well let the fairy tale give him comfort.

Pretty much my point.

Bat Attack · 12-12-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

That's still no excuse to believe in him.
More and more people recur to saying that religion makes people happy so I should allow it. But why don't they talk about all the negative side of religion?
They're not happy, they're content!

This is a good point.

MollyMac · 12-12-2008, 04:35 PM

And there's no excuse NOT to believe either- as the whole of it is unproveable.

"They're not happy, they're content!
Believing in a supreme being justifies authority.
Believing in karma justifies wrongdoing.
Believing in the afterlife justifies suffering.
Believing in personal religion justifies error"

But if they believe thay are happy, let them have their happiness and you can have youe malcontentment with their situation. Whether it is justified or not- ALL of these things exist. Whether we have parables, fables, or histories, ALL of what you said still will exist for all days. Where there are two in existance, there will always be disparity.

The belief of imaginary twins making out is not a shared belief. It is an individual delusion. There is a shared belief of god with many (for right or for wrong, I will not argue).

Sanguine Mind · 12-12-2008, 04:37 PM

Jillian- You do have a point. Religion has been one of the biggest killers in the world due to all the fighting.

The Crusades
9/11
Thirty Years War
The Northern Irish Conflict

Just to name a few.