My Crisis: Is my God really not real?

[PortraitOfSanity]

Apparently, you don't get it.

Go read a book instead of buying into the theistic bullshit denouncing atheism.

There's scientific proof of the Big Bang, and of Evolution, while all the creationists do is bitch and whine when we try to teach them in classrooms. They offer no valid arguments, let alone any type of legitimate scientific proof.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by MegearaErotica

No, I'm an anti-bullshit missionary. I preach on various other issues such as "Sparkly Vampires Are Pansies" and "Why the Fuck Does America Think Obama Will Magically Change the Whole Countries' Economics?".
My latest seminar will be titled "Why Does G.net Allow Saying Fuck But Not **** or ******?"

I don't know, I think that you should do the "When the Fuck Did People Decide That A Plural Infinitive Is How You Communicate A Point About A Singular Country, Just How Stupid Is MegearaErotica To Talk About How Smart She Is Despite Not Knowing That She Should Have Said 'Country's'?"

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

There's scientific proof of the Big Bang, and of Evolution, while all the creationists do is bitch and whine when we try to teach them in classrooms. They offer no valid arguments, let alone any type of legitimate scientific proof.

Not -all- creationists are like that, though. Some of us believe that God could have used Evolution and/or Big Bang and that the beginning of Genesis is more of an allegory depicting how the world began rather than something to be presented as absolute, literal truth.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me whichever way God decided to do things, and it doesn't really matter to me how the world cam about in the first place. What matters to me is dealing with the here and now, and most of the time, the here and now isn't all that concerned about how things began all those ancient millenia ago.

Also, I agree that there isn't much legitimate scientific proof for everything being created in 6 days and all...but, then again, faith isn't really about proving things possible by science. It's about believing in something beyond the physical that we -can't- prove by science. That's why it's called "faith" and not "science".

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

the beginning of Genesis is more of an allegory depicting how the world began rather than something to be presented as absolute, literal truth.

Is there absolutely any reason to believe that?

[PortraitOfSanity]

"Hi, I am the Lord Your God. I am the all powerful, the ever present. My son can change water into wine, raise the dead, and cure the lepers. I control whether your soul is sent up to the clouds, or a fiery pit. But don't take what's written in this book completely seriously. I know it says in here that they just wrote down what I said, but really, most of these stories are just analogies."

[Magila]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Apparently, you don't get it.

Go read a book instead of buying into the theistic bullshit denouncing atheism.

There's scientific proof of the Big Bang, and of Evolution, while all the creationists do is bitch and whine when we try to teach them in classrooms. They offer no valid arguments, let alone any type of legitimate scientific proof.

Last i checked, in my religion God mentioned the Big Bang.
Evolution ? No.

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Let's take a look at this shall we ?

Second Law of Thermodynamics


In short : If Any closed system is left without a mover it will reach instability and collapse with time.

So that pretty much sums up, if there was no mover ( no god ) then we would probably have collapsed and every thing went off balance in this universe, for example whole planets will no longer rotate in a balanced way, gravity will go random, every thing which is called matter will mulfunction.

Every physical movement will not do it's natural job, as in sound waves, heat, movement, water, atmosphers, etc.

And i would like to throw a mathematical calculation into your pretty atheist face, let's say The big bang just happened randomly, without a reason ( you should probably know that there was another mover other than the big bang itself that stabilized the explosion, if there was not then every thing would've just exploded to hell ), then that means that every physical movement, that is happening in this world is basically a chain of random happenings without prior calculation from a Creator which you clearly deny.

Do you know how stupid is it to believe that each movement, each balanced atom is randomly moving every day that passes every second since million of years just out of random Entropy ?

Scientists already calculated the chance that this universe could have happened randomly, want numbers ?

here you go : the chance that this universe was randomly created is 1 divided by (10^10^123 ) which means 1/12300, which mathematically known that it equals ZERO.

By Sir Roger Penrose, OM, FRS an English mathematical physicist and Emeritus Rouse Ball Professor of Mathematics at the Mathematical Institute, University of Oxford and Emeritus Fellow of Wadham College.

Do you know if the speed of the matter in the big bang was slower or faster by 2-3 seconds then the universe would not have happend ?

And all these numbers on ONLY the big bang, don't let me get started on every single physical movement, let alone Creation of organic matter chances without having a god.

Edit : It is interesting that the last time i had this conversation with an atheist, sadly who is an educated person with a PHD. after a meetings that lasted weeks with him, he lastly told me it might not be god, it might be creatures in another universe but not god.

Interesting how atheist try to deny god with every possible study just because they are actually afraid that there will be a god, hence they won't feel free anymore.

If my god was a blood lusted creator wanting death to humanity, i would still bow before him because he is my creator, so don't bring in the love, freedom of choice subjects next.

[PortraitOfSanity]

No, God mentioned creating everything in existence in 6 days. That's not the Big Bang theory at all.

Is that all you have to disprove a universe creation theory that excludes a God? Odds? That's really all you have? Well, in that case, I can prove to you that NOONE in the history of the world has EVER won the Lottery.

[Magila]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

No, God mentioned creating everything in existence in 6 days. That's not the Big Bang theory at all.

Is that all you have to disprove a universe creation theory that excludes a God? Odds? That's really all you have? Well, in that case, I can prove to you that NOONE in the history of the world has EVER won the Lottery.

Yes, 6 days, i don't see the point of your statement, there were no living creatures when the big bang happened hence the 6 day creation to show the Human that patience is the key, even tho that he created the larger portion of the universe in the last day to show that he is capable of anything.

And in the texts of my religion, god said that he created the universe from the tiniest bit then he expanded it, not that hard to understand really.

EDIT : i would like to point one thing to you and everyone, Stop judging god by the laws of man, A creation cannot look at a creator using creations laws, he made time, matter, physics, hence no one will ever have an idea of what the creator is.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Magila

EDIT : i would like to point one thing to you and everyone, Stop judging god by the laws of man, A creation cannot look at a creator using creations laws, he made time, matter, physics, hence no one will ever have an idea of what the creator is.

If thats true, why would you ever trust an old dusty book written by men that says what God did and said?

[Magila]

Originally Posted by Saya

If thats true, why would you ever trust an old dusty book written by men that says what God did and said?

I first used science to know that there is a Creator, then i used logic.
After i did those two, i believed in a book that proved my points, that book was indeed written by men, but the words were not from a man, because a man can't tell future, neither a man thousands years ago can talk about things that were revealed in science in the 19th and 20th century.

And don't you worry, that book has day by day written sources of the people who copied it til this day, which just shows me there were no change in it.

[PortraitOfSanity]

I dunno how you've deluded yourself into thinking that the Bible presents a scientific creation of the Universe, but I find your delusion pretty amazing.

I could copy and paste all of Genesis into here, break it down for you, and show you the difference between the Big Bang and the theistic explanation, and you'd still argue with me.

Just come to grips with the fact that you believe in a theistic explanation, and that's that. I don't think any less of you for it.

[Necrophagist]

Actually, in the Koran, it has said that the Earth is round, and that - apart from worshipping Allah - mankind should find out about the word around them, thus promoting science.

[PortraitOfSanity]

True. But we've been talking about Christianity specifically. And historically, the East was always light years ahead in science.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by Magila

Atheism is the way to go if you just can't get it.

Wow, you sure showed us. Wait, wait. I think two can play at this game.

Christianity is dumb, because it asserts that the universe was created because a three legged sloth named Ethel did a little happy dance. Har har, aren't those Christians stupid? Happy dance, hee hee.

Wow, I sure showed you. You know, I think you're on to something with this whole grossly misrepresenting the position of the other guy thing. It's way easier than actually making a case.

I'll handle all the noise about thermodynamics and stuff later. Gotta sleep.

[Magila]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Wow, you sure showed us. Wait, wait. I think two can play at this game.

Christianity is dumb, because it asserts that the universe was created because a three legged sloth named Ethel did a little happy dance. Har har, aren't those Christians stupid? Happy dance, hee hee.

Wow, I sure showed you. You know, I think you're on to something with this whole grossly misrepresenting the position of the other guy thing. It's way easier than actually making a case.

you " are " actually stupid.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Magila

here you go : the chance that this universe was randomly created is 1 divided by (10^10^123 ) which means 1/12300, which mathematically known that it equals ZERO.

....

Hahahah. Did you calculate that yourself? I assume it should say 10 * 10^123? And that equals 12300?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Magila

I first used science to know that there is a Creator, then i used logic.
After i did those two, i believed in a book that proved my points, that book was indeed written by men, but the words were not from a man, because a man can't tell future, neither a man thousands years ago can talk about things that were revealed in science in the 19th and 20th century.

And don't you worry, that book has day by day written sources of the people who copied it til this day, which just shows me there were no change in it.

O.O Seriously? There is so much that has been edited out of the Bible, not to mention mistranslations.

So you logically decided that there is a God who made us in his own image? And that he sent his only son to die for our sins and take us to paradise (for which we are still waiting to happen....?)

[Magila]

Originally Posted by Raptor

....

Hahahah. Did you calculate that yourself? I assume it should say 10 * 10^123? And that equals 12300?

Yeah, i acknowledge that as my bad, being stupid, it's 1 by ( 10^10^123 ). that's it, and mathematically does equal Zero.

I am not that good with translating math to English.


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Just to clear up some misunderstanding, i did not mention the Bible anywhere.

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Drake Dun, I would be more happy to discuss this with you, i will also prepare a whole load of proofs for you later.

For now, i am logging out.

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

It's about believing in something beyond the physical that we -can't- prove by science. That's why it's called "faith" and not "science".

Indeed...
(In illusion comfort lies, eh?)

[Godslayer Jillian]

Calling Drake stupid just shows you really have no arguments, you're just trying to insult those that know better than you. Drake is the single most intelligent person around these parts, and with members like Duckman, GM, and myself, that's saying a lot.

Also, about that second law of thermodynamics

Originally Posted by Magila

In short : If Any closed system is left without a mover it will reach instability and collapse with time.

Key word being CLOSED; remember that for the future. It perfectly explains life in terms of evolution.

So that pretty much sums up, if there was no mover ( no god ) then we would probably have collapsed and every thing went off balance in this universe

How do you make such a bold assumption?
The big bang did begin due to the primordial singularity arriving at such a state of disorder that it couldn't hold itself as a singularity anymore. So the second law applies here; how it applies to your arbitrary god, I have no idea.

for example whole planets will no longer rotate in a balanced way, gravity will go random, every thing which is called matter will mulfunction.

That's not true at all.
"hey everybody, entropy means that there will be disorder as in planets will bounce around and we'll be born with three legs!"

Every physical movement will not do it's natural job, as in sound waves, heat, movement, water, atmosphers, etc.

God.... I don't even know what to say here. It's just entirely stupid. From your assumption to your calling atmosphers a "physical movement"

[quote]And i would like to throw a mathematical calculation into your pretty atheist fac [quote] Oh no! He's using maths now!

let's say The big bang just happened randomly, without a reason ( you should probably know that there was another mover other than the big bang itself that stabilized the explosion, if there was not then every thing would've just exploded to hell

THAT WASN'T A MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION AND IT DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS YOUR WHOLE BULLSHIT USE OF THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS
The universe moves to a state of higher entropy, there's no 'stabilizer'
That's a universal law of physics, you idiot.

then that means that every physical movement, that is happening in this world is basically a chain of random happenings without prior calculation from a Creator which you clearly deny.

That is no logical assumption at all.

Do you know how stupid is it to believe that each movement, each balanced atom is randomly moving every day that passes every second since million of years just out of random Entropy ?

Not out of random entropy. That makes no sense. Stop using the word entropy every time you can. It proves you don't really know what it means.
You know what makes us believe such an 'absurd' claim that every atom and photon and tachyon and electron and whatnot is moving randomly?
Basic quantum physics

here you go : the chance that this universe was randomly created is 1 divided by (10^10^123 ) which means 1/12300, which mathematically known that it equals ZERO.

Bitch, the chance of this universe appearing any moment in over fourteen billion years is one over twelve hundred?
I like those odds. You are pathetic, do you realize that number is high for the ridiculously small numbers that comprise the basic foundations of our universe?
Just look at number which you will still comprehend: milliseconds, a thousandth of a second.
The Big Bang exploded massively even before the first millisecond was over, and that would render your little 'equation' into giving the universe a possibility of existence of roughly 1/12.
You could play russian roulette with two revolvers and have the same odds than your supposed equation.

Do you know if the speed of the matter in the big bang was slower or faster by 2-3 seconds then the universe would not have happend ?

Yes, either matter would have been sucked back into the singularity or it wouldn't have coalesced as it did into galaxies and filaments. So? That you can't believe it doesn't make it false - isn't that your whole premise for God? Except with god it's worse, it's that you can't prove it doesn't make it false. We, however, can mathematically and empirically prove it, you simply choose not to believe it; not to understand.

Interesting how atheist try to deny god with every possible study just because they are actually afraid that there will be a god, hence they won't feel free anymore.

Where the fuck do you make that assumption?
Let me twist that on you:
Interesting how christians try to believe in god with every possible twisting of evidence because they are actually afraid there will be no god, hence they are entirely responsible of their lives.

If my god was a blood lusted creator wanting death to humanity, i would still bow before him because he is my creator, so don't bring in the love, freedom of choice subjects next.

We didn't.
We don't care what you feel.
We just care that you can't actually prove shit.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

Is there absolutely any reason to believe that?

Sure, if you know God is real and yet you don't have a problem with Evolution.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

No, God mentioned creating everything in existence in 6 days. That's not the Big Bang theory at all.

Actually, it was the writer of Genesis who mentioned it, and that writer was human.

Also, the Bible -does- say that "a thousand days is but a gleam in God's eye", or something to that effect, which basically means that God doesn't think of time as we do, so yeah....to God, it may have been six days, but on earth, it could have been millions of years.

My question is, though...why does it matter how God chose to make the earth? How does it affect my daily life? Why should I care whether or not it took 6 days, 6 millenia, or 6 billion years?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Sure, if you know God is real and yet you don't have a problem with Evolution.

That's begging the question.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

That's begging the question.

Indeed, it is, and though we don't have the question, we -do- know that the answer is 42.

[Godslayer Jillian]

For the balls of the nonexistent god, tell me you know what begging the question means.
You didn't respond to JCC at all.