The diminishing understanding of the Gothic roots.

[Anarasha]

The roots of the gothic subculture has been misunderstood and forgotten by the general public as a result of the rising amounts of young people dressing in a band shirt, "weird" hair, a few piercings, maybe a tatto yet they are wearing blue "vinyl wear"(how the fuck did that even get that name?) pants.
This is fine, they are allowed to do as they please. But when they go around introducing themselves as Goth and promoting Evanescense and Nightwish as true Goth bands, they are just pathetic and sad.
The media tends to focus a lot on these said young people, sometimes even interviewing them.
This adds to the growing confusion around the real roots of the goth scene.
Most of these people classify better as emo/scenekids or metalheads, but these rapings of facts misquoted in said interviews fuck up potential "new goths" from the very beginning.
When potential newcomers decide to look into these "kewl g0thz" and go on the blessed intarwebz to do research, whether they learn their roots or not all comes down to whether or not they actually land on a legit site or one of those crap "Marilyn Manson iz teh gawthzu0r!" sites.
It really saddens me.
It doesn't even push every one of my buttons, it smashes them down several fucking times with a pizzashovel.
</Vent>

[Emerald]

I couldn't agree more. It is sad, and more than a little frustrating to see the Gothic Subculture, with all of its history, reduced to little more than a crazy fad in the eyes of the mainstream. And even sadder still, to see the younger generation buying into the mass media's false portrayal of the subculture.

Having said that. It also annoys me when older, or more established members of the Gothic Subculture, denounce and decry the Babybats and Mallgoths et al, and yet make no attempt to actually guide or educate. Let's face it, we were ALL Babybats once upon a time. I'm sure most of us could tell our own embarrassing tales of some of the lame ideas we had, and ridiculous ways we acted when we were newcomers.

Rather than jumping on the Babybats and dismissing them offhand because they're 'poseurs', or 'try hards', or whatever else people wish to label them, if they at least show a willingness to be educated and guided, then why not help them out. You never know, some of them may go onto become a valued part of our subculture.

Just my opinion of course, feel free to agree or disagree as you see fit.

[Still Jack]

How many times has this thread been done already?

[Mir]

anarasha - you have the ugliest haircut ever

are you a dude or a chick? ive always wondered

[JCC]

Yeah, we already knew all this.

[HumanePain]

There are subtle attempts by the media, and by others to educate babybats. Nicktoons Danny Phantom character Sam Manson has an Einstürzende Neubauten poster on her bedroom wall. I proclaim Dead Can Dance to all the youngsters I meet in person. I turned my older niece onto Christian Death and she now uses 1334 in everything from passwords to signatures, not just wearing black nail polish. There is hope that hopelessness may endure.

[Anarasha]

Originally Posted by Mir

anarasha - you have the ugliest haircut ever

are you a dude or a chick? ive always wondered

You could read my introduction thread to find out.

[Starke von Oben]

Originally Posted by Anarasha

The roots of the gothic subculture has been misunderstood and forgotten by the general public as a result of the rising amounts of young people dressing in a band shirt, "weird" hair, a few piercings, maybe a tatto yet they are wearing blue "vinyl wear"(how the fuck did that even get that name?) pants.

Since when did a goth ever seek the approval or understanding of the general public?

This is fine, they are allowed to do as they please. But when they go around introducing themselves as Goth and promoting Evanescense and Nightwish as true Goth bands, they are just pathetic and sad.

...and when these pathetic and sad little baby bats finally discover bands such as Christian Death or Alien Sex Fiend, lo and behold they make posts such as this on gothic.net.

The media tends to focus a lot on these said young people, sometimes even interviewing them.

The media is such a broad, generalised term. What aspect of the media specifically?

This adds to the growing confusion around the real roots of the goth scene.

Were you even at the Batcave in 1983?

Most of these people classify better as emo/scenekids or metalheads, but these rapings of facts misquoted in said interviews fuck up potential "new goths" from the very beginning.

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

When potential newcomers decide to look into these "kewl g0thz" and go on the blessed intarwebz to do research, whether they learn their roots or not all comes down to whether or not they actually land on a legit site or one of those crap "Marilyn Manson iz teh gawthzu0r!" sites.

What on earth are you babbling about?

It really saddens me.

You should get out more.

It doesn't even push every one of my buttons, it smashes them down several fucking times with a pizzashovel.
</Vent>

Read previous comment.

[Anarasha]

Originally Posted by Starke von Oben

Since when did a goth ever seek the approval or understanding of the general public?

Probably never, that does not prevent me from venting though.

Originally Posted by Starke von Oben

...and when these pathetic and sad little baby bats finally discover bands such as Christian Death or Alien Sex Fiend, lo and behold they make posts such as this on gothic.net.

Maybe so. Whether or not you believe me to fall under this category does not matter to me at all. And even if I did fall under said category, what's it to you?

Originally Posted by Starke von Oben

The media is such a broad, generalised term. What aspect of the media specifically?

It was on the evening news in my country at one point.

Originally Posted by Starke von Oben

Were you even at the Batcave in 1983?

I am born in 1990, so no. That does not remove my right to claim the label of Goth if I please.

Originally Posted by Starke von Oben

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

Yes, and appearently you already knew this seeing as you managed to understand my post and reply with a question as stupid as this.

Originally Posted by Starke von Oben

What on earth are you babbling about?

I will leave that up to you to figure out.

Originally Posted by Starke von Oben

You should get out more.

Probably.

Originally Posted by Starke von Oben

Read previous comment.

YOU read the previous comment.

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

Who wants to be a Goth anyway? Just listen to the music and be happy.

The only point in this that I can at all identify with, is the mis-labeling of bands, which doesn't peeve me, I just like labels to be accurate so people (including me) know what the hell I'm listening to.

[ForestMist]

Oh, that never ending story of what the mainstream claims goth and goths complaining about it...
Of course many kids are disinformated about the actual goth music. I'd blame it on MTV and familiar stuff.
How can we expect that these kids will know about the roots of the subculture if they think it's all about being cool by dressing in strange clothes? (Ok, partially it is looking strange.)

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by Sir Canvas Corpsey

... Just listen to the music and be happy.

Shouldn't it be "and be sad."? Haha.

"Punk: The world is bad and makes us mad.

Goth: The world is bad and makes us sad."

-unknown

[Cicero]

This isn't new, and it doesn't matter.

People will always be misinformed about everything. I have to explain the basics of evolution on a regular basis because such a large portion of the population can't understand the simple concept of a common ancestor. And if they can't wrap their heads around something that should be common knowledge how can you expect them to know the roots of a relatively obscure music scene that shares its name with an East Germanic tribe, medieval architecture and a literary genre, with a definition that can't even be agreed upon by its own participants?

If you really have a passion for the music just enjoy it, support it and promote it. Whining is a waste of your time.

[vindicatedxjin]

Gothic Subculture....that's all it is. Who cares if it changes? it's been constantly changing since it was created...hell it's merely punks baby. So who is anyone to say shit about the scene or hardcore kids??? They are merely doing what everyone else was doing way back when. Only difference is that there are more of them and it's not as much of a scarce thing as goth was when it was started. I for one happen to like the hardcore subculture better anyways. I like the music, I Like the style and I like how everyone's not trying so hard as they do in the goth scene. I mean don't get me wrong, I love goth music and I love the style...but I'm open to the indie scene, the hardcore kids, and the metal heads. Why be so anal about things "changing"? Not everyone is going to want to listen to bauhaus and sioxie all the time.

[Alan]

Ironic you'd have that opinion when you seem to know shit about the hardcore scene too. Now, you ARE indeed talking about the current "hardcore scene" which today is precisely a scene. So you're partly accurate. But this accuracy goes insofar as any other kitsch-loving advocate of mediocrity is right in saying anything that tickles their fancy is art.

[SweetJane]

I just can't be bothered with the idea of saving something that at one time was a decent musical movement but has since become a product for making a more interesting "self". I mean anything is goth, if you can market it right- the look, your mom, even Christianity. I'm not so insecure that I worry what people assume about me based off of the way I look. This topic just doesn't cross my mind.

[Still Jack]

Shut the fuck up!!!! Thread over!!!

[Anarasha]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

...but I'm open to the indie scene, the hardcore kids, and the metal heads. Why be so anal about things "changing"? Not everyone is going to want to listen to bauhaus and sioxie all the time.

I am not saying they are not welcome. I myself am more of a metalhead anyway.
I just think that before people start talking on the evening news about something, they should get their facts straight.

[sibyl vane.]

Idiots mislabel things all the time. Just be glad you're not one of them instead of getting all angsty about it.

[DepthsofSpace]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

There is hope that hopelessness may endure.

That is the greatest line ever written on this forum.


I've gotten to the point where I go out of my way to subtly guide newcomers. There's been a rash of newbies arriving at my command who latch onto me because I'm the only real alternative type here, and they profess to be 'goths' in a typical baby bat fashion. It use to be, I would snub them immediately, however I realized, many of them have the same interest as I, they just need direction and better music. Some surprise me though, like the one I ignored and then knocked on my barracks door the next day to ask if what I was listening to (at a high volume) was Ghost Dance (happened to be Spin the Wheel. I was surprise anyone knew them, as I had just D/L the album from Get Dead the previous day).

Sometimes, you never know. Maybe with a little more mentoring out there, we can reverse some of the onslaught of faddism in the culture.

[Anarasha]

Indeed, if babybats(Look at me, I learned a new term! ) are willing to learn, they are more than welcome.
Poseurs trying to teach ME hot "übzar gawtz Marilynz Manzon und HIMz r" should just not bother as I will effectively tell them to go fuck a cactus from behind.

[Pineapple_Juice]

Please. Half the people who say they're goth and snub everyone else can only mention The Cure, Siouxsie, and Bauhaus before they've exhausted their knowledge of goth music.

To be clear, Bauhaus blows, and so does Siouxsie.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice

Please. Half the people who say they're goth and snub everyone else can only mention The Cure, Siouxsie, and Bauhaus before they've exhausted their knowledge of goth music.

To be clear, Bauhaus blows, and so does Siouxsie.

You forgot Sisters Of Mercy!

[SweetJane]

I'm the opposite, I like the bauhaus ok, love siouxie, but the cure doesn't do it for me.

[Saya]

Siouxsie solo I hate, but Banshees were good. I think a little overrated but good. Bauhaus are meh, The Cure I'm a rabid fan of.