a disturbing new trend is emerging - Page 5

Heretic · 05-15-2009, 01:13 PM

I've been going back and forth in this thread, trying to figure this out. As near as I can tell, the point of the thread is getting lost in the general disdain regulars to the site have for the member known as Catch. If folks don't mind, I'd like to add an outsider's two cents to what appears to be a long-running dispute:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catch

Goths are into one-ups-manship and often engage in insulting and attacking each other. I believe being able to take and give it is one of the ways to define a Goth.

This essentially sounds to me like bigotry. Really? You're going to claim that anyone who identifies as a Goth is going to automatically fall into the narrow stereotype you've just defined? If this is indicative of the 1,000+ posts you have made here, it would appear that the venom directed at you is richly deserved.

On the topic of venom, I'm sorry to see so much of it. If Catch is a troll of some sort, and personal messages to her by the moderators have been ineffective, why hasn't she been banned and her IP address added to the ban filter by an Admin? Cutting out a cancer is easy to do on sites like this. It's a much better alternative to allowing interesting and informative topics to be swallowed up in insults and put-downs. Since I don't know the history with that member, and therefore have no context for those statements, posts like some I've seen here have been...disappointing to see.

I've visited this site off and on for several years now. This time around, I'm inclined to ask more questions and gain an understanding of how things work around here. My apologies if I'm stepping on anyone's toes, but I'd like to work at becoming a part of the community here. I figure that if I'm going to be a member here, I should try to contribute in a positive way.

- Heretic

KontanKarite · 05-15-2009, 03:22 PM

Heretic, there seems to be a certain unspoken hierarchy here, but for good reason.

People such as Porcelain, Catch, Mindless 1, Unimatrix, Opteron_Man and other far less stellar members have done and said things that are childish, ignorant, or simply down right stupid. They tend to display a kind of ego about them as well.

In short, it is mainly this: They are pissed because certain members do not like them for very good reasons and they're pissed that they can't make "friends" on this site.

What they fail to realize is that once they establish a strong and negative rapport with the forum, we generally don't want them to be around.

I've told them that it'd be best for them to leave, that there's nothing they can do to convince the members that they're worth talking to or knowing... but they persist as if fighting with us is going to earn them a spot in our good graces.

Porcelain... There's a shit load of goth forums out there that would probably love your input. We don't like you and you don't like us. It would be best for you to leave. There's nothing of value for you here unless you like being ridiculed every time you slam your fingers on your keyboard.

Heretic · 05-15-2009, 05:01 PM

First, thank you for taking the time to fill me in. I'm going through the various house rules as well, but I suspect I'll feel more than a green for a while yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I've told them that it'd be best for them to leave, that there's nothing they can do to convince the members that they're worth talking to or knowing... but they persist as if fighting with us is going to earn them a spot in our good graces.

Hmm...so, they can't be banned by the moderators? That seems unusual.

- Heretic

Godslayer Jillian · 05-15-2009, 05:02 PM

They aren't doing anything except pissing off most people due to their personalities. This is not a deliberate attempt at trolling, so it would be despotic for the moderators to ban them.
I dislike it, but I can respect that. Blatant trolls, they do tend to ban them.

KontanKarite · 05-15-2009, 05:15 PM

And that's the crux of it.

A bunch of shit heads like to come on this site and play goth. Much to their dismay, they quickly discover that no one on here is playing much of anything and this being a goth forum is generally an afterthought to what this site really is, a small on-line community of individuals. Therefor, they feel angry that we don't share their tastes in fashion, their disdain for emos and hipsters, their love of terrible heavy metal, or their rabid fandom of Twilight. We also do not play into their glamorization of their "shitty" spoiled lives.

Duane · 05-15-2009, 05:16 PM

We also ridicule them if they go on about 'commiting suicide'.

KontanKarite · 05-15-2009, 05:21 PM

That is true...

Duane · 05-15-2009, 05:21 PM

Where is Mindless1, anyway?

KontanKarite · 05-15-2009, 05:23 PM

Who really cares?

Duane · 05-15-2009, 05:25 PM

Hm.... no one, I guess.

HumanePain · 05-15-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

A bunch of shit heads like to come on this site and play goth. Much to their dismay, they quickly discover that no one on here is playing much of anything and this being a goth forum is generally an afterthought to what this site really is, a small on-line community of individuals.

I think a part of the equation too is that there are different learning curves. If newbies arrive and learn quickly, they can survive and even thrive.

If their learning curves are a gentle rising slope however, or even flat, then that can exacerbate an already challenged personality.

What I am trying to say is that there will be those who are new to this community and like what they see, but need to learn more about music and history etc. and we should be tolerant of them. If they really like the culture they will exert effort to learn, but some do not learn quickly enough and become ostracized because of it. The difficult question (for me) is at what point do you write off someone, when do you decide they are worth attacking? For trolls it is an obvious answer, but for honest simpletons it is a tough call. Being a moron is not a crime.

Catch · 05-16-2009, 08:22 PM

I'm not talking about that. Quite frankly you're all hypocrites and judgmental of other people. Siting something as a specific group as being "picked on" usually only furthers hostilities and compells more people to join in until people only see the group instead of individuals. I have yet to see anyone on this thread that even tried to break away from cyclical behavior, or many Goths either. It's always Preps and punks and this or that. No one is ever angry at someone because they are a prick. Even in this arguement I'm not a Goth; therefore, worthless because all non-goths are worthless and stupid. Sorry but your all about as close minded as it gets.

Solumina · 05-16-2009, 09:12 PM

No, people point out that you aren't goth because you strive so hard to portray yourself as a member of the subculture. If anyone on here refuses to be associate with non-goths then I feel quite sorry for them as they are missing many opportunities for worthwhile companionship.

korinna5555 · 05-16-2009, 09:47 PM

Haha.. Soli.. remember when my brother first met you? He was so surprised that you didn't "look goth". Poor, confused thing.. xD

Heretic · 05-16-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catch

Quite frankly you're all hypocrites and judgmental of other people. Siting something as a specific group as being "picked on" usually only furthers hostilities and compells more people to join in until people only see the group instead of individuals. I have yet to see anyone on this thread that even tried to break away from cyclical behavior, or many Goths either. It's always Preps and punks and this or that. No one is ever angry at someone because they are a prick. Even in this arguement I'm not a Goth; therefore, worthless because all non-goths are worthless and stupid. Sorry but your all about as close minded as it gets.

You appear to be making some sweeping generalizations about the motivations of those who have responded to this thread. Obviously, you have a history with a couple of the people here. Why then would you cultivate more enemies by including people such as myself in your responses to them? You know nothing of me, my views, or my perspective on the subculture, yet you appear to be very quick to pigeonhole me according to your rather unique view of what the subculture is all about.

Do not let personal disputes color your views of an entire subculture, and avoid making the mistake of stereotyping every member of that subculture based on issues you may have with a few individuals. As I said in an earlier post, there is very little difference between that attitude and the narrow-mindedness that forms the basis for things like bigotry, misogyny, or homophobia. By pursuing this scorched-earth line of argument, you simply become the very thing you accuse others of being.

- Heretic

Solumina · 05-16-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korinna5555

Haha.. Soli.. remember when my brother first met you? He was so surprised that you didn't "look goth". Poor, confused thing.. xD

Ah yes I remember that, good times

KontanKarite · 05-17-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catch

I'm not talking about that. Quite frankly you're all hypocrites and judgmental of other people. Siting something as a specific group as being "picked on" usually only furthers hostilities and compells more people to join in until people only see the group instead of individuals. I have yet to see anyone on this thread that even tried to break away from cyclical behavior, or many Goths either. It's always Preps and punks and this or that. No one is ever angry at someone because they are a prick. Even in this arguement I'm not a Goth; therefore, worthless because all non-goths are worthless and stupid. Sorry but your all about as close minded as it gets.

Will you fucking listen to yourself? How the fuck old are you? You look like you're in your forties. You're a grown woman, Catch and you're bitching and moaning about cliques as if you're in high school. Why don't you drop this stupid "Everyone hates me because I'm not goth enough" bullshit, get married, have a kid, and shut the fuck up about shit that doesn't matter.

Do you realize how embarrassing you are? I'm probably half your age or damn near that and the LAST thing on my mind is weather someone is goth enough to be around me or not. Think about that, Catch... really. I'm almost half your age and I have better priorities than you.

YOU should be telling me to grow the fuck up. YOU should be the one that's far beyond a high school intellect.

Jesus... go find some fucking help, woman.

gothicusmaximus · 05-17-2009, 11:36 AM

Has no one else realized that Catch is autistic? Conducting a protracted argument with Catch or writing a long post imploring Catch to behave sensibly is equatable with an attempt to treat Helen Keller by sitting her in a corner and yelling "SEE! HEAR!"

KontanKarite · 05-17-2009, 11:41 AM

Jesus, GM... when you put it that way, it changes everything.

Now I suppose I'm going to have to play nice. I'm sure if we all knew that, we'd been more patient with her.

The more you know... ---=====*

Zerachiel · 05-17-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Jesus, GM... when you put it that way, it changes everything.

Now I suppose I'm going to have to play nice. I'm sure if we all knew that, we'd been more patient with her.

The more you know... ---=====*

*thumbs up* GOOD JOB!
...Anyhow, pretty sure from what I've seen here is it's assumed that most "Goths" or other's of that part generally wish to be different and treat others nicely because they're different from you, in thus, seeing nothing wrong and seeing everything as it is opposed to "YOU WARE BLACK, DIE *Hack&Slash*"
In thus, what I've EVER seen from you people and these forums is nothing BUT hostility, and never just HAVING patience, to be honest...Really? I've seen people 10 times worse, and it's really not that hard to just *look at it* and ignore it, now is it?

Catch · 05-17-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

No, people point out that you aren't goth because you strive so hard to portray yourself as a member of the subculture. If anyone on here refuses to be associate with non-goths then I feel quite sorry for them as they are missing many opportunities for worthwhile companionship.

Actually, I have virtually no loyalty to any subculture... more punk or goth over the other ones. If you want to buy me a few drinks I'll be a prep or chav. ~shrug~

KontanKarite · 05-17-2009, 09:46 PM

*facepalm*

Porcelain · 05-29-2009, 09:08 AM

Hey Jillian, you're a douche

Has anyone ever told you that?
In fact, every loser n00b on this forum is a douche. Find a nicer subculture to conform, i mean 'be yourself' in.
FTR, I found this site because I googled "how long will it take for my eyebrows to grow back"
all following amusement is self explanatory.

Heretic · 05-29-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porcelain

Hey Jillian, you're a douche

Has anyone ever told you that?

I'm sure they have, only in a much more impressive and respectable fashion. The key here is wit and entertainment value, none of which was evident in the bile you attempted to pass off as a "post".

Quote:

In fact, every loser n00b on this forum is a douche.

So which is it; do you hate the newer members (which includes not only me but yourself as well), or do you simply hate everyone here?

Being "new" to this forum myself, and after running another Goth forum for several years, I find that treading lightly works best when feeling things out and learning the ropes on a site. From the way you've handled yourself in this thread, I would say that you have chosen poorly. There is more going on here than we are aware, a fact that may have helped you become a contributing member of the forum, as opposed to the pariah you seem to be turning into.

Quote:

Find a nicer subculture to conform, i mean 'be yourself' in.

Self-identification is not self-stereotyping, nor can it automatically be defined as conformity. For example, I'm an American. Does this mean that I conform to an ideal, or that a few simple assumptions even begin to cover the breadth and variety of that particular group?

Quote:

FTR, I found this site because I googled "how long will it take for my eyebrows to grow back"

And how many results did that phrase generate, anyway?

*googles*

Only 151? I just know there are more of you hairless trolls out there than that...

Quote:

all following amusement is self explanatory.

The preceding "post" was more unflatteringly descriptive of its author than my sorry attempts at humor could possibly have been, a point apparently lost upon said author.

- Heretic

Solumina · 05-29-2009, 06:36 PM

Heretic, I adore you