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General General questions and meet 'n greet and welcome! |
05-15-2012, 11:22 PM
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#26
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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I wouldn't know enough about this topic and definitely not when specifically referring to Canada, but at the moment I'm in Renatus' camp because I would find it very interesting to see a correlation between a shift towards institutional racism and Canada's relationship with other races at that same time.
You know, superstructure and base structure and whatnot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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05-16-2012, 02:25 AM
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#27
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In your trash can
Posts: 2,594
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Ango-saxon, through and through. Go UK!
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"Always be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle." - Plato
Help me, I'm holding on for dear life
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05-16-2012, 03:55 AM
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#28
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,274
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Solumina,
I did do a food thread, you know. (Actually because there was a thread for what you are listening to, reading and wearing, but nothing about that topic. Was just wondering what other folks were munching when they read or listen to music). Now that you mention it, we have a Melting Pot here... and chocolate fondue does sound nice. Hmmmm.....
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05-16-2012, 04:08 AM
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#29
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I have always hated this fetish of trying to figure out the tiniest racial fraction one has.
Let me know when it's not a white dude who's flaunting their 'roots'.
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Alan,
Not "flaunting" my "roots." Lost my mom the Thanksgiving before last, and my great-aunt last year, thus, the only remaining member of my mom's family to carry the family name. So, my mom's family is essentially extinct. My great-grandfather only had 2 children, my grandmother and my great-uncle, and they both had girls, so the family lineage died with my great-uncle. My great-grandfather's only brother never had any children, so when my maternal great-aunt died last year, so did the family name. I now have only half of a family -- my dad's side. That's why I got interested in geneology. (If I don't have at least SOME relatives somewhere on my mom's side of the family, 50% of my family has gone the way of the dodo. My siblings and I carry the bloodline, but it's rapidly becoming dilute). And the family name is no longer even in the local phone directory in my mom's home town. That's kind of a shock.
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05-16-2012, 06:24 AM
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#30
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatus
When did Canada's racism start exactly? Did it by chance coincide with the slaves escaping into Canada?
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No. I don't live in an area where black people have lived for a long time, but natives seem to get most of the racism pointed at them. There is racism against black people and contrary to popular belief we did have a slave trade, it just wasn't very popular. Right away we tried to kill natives.
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I think the initial racism against the natives was a matter of psychologically making it easier to wage a war against them, for the sake of taking their land. Dehumanization of the enemy is quite normal in the course of a war.
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The question wasn't if educated Africian civilizations, it was how many.
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Africa was actually in pretty good shape before Europe ruined everything. Ethiopia for example was pretty famous in classical mythology, you know Andromeda and the Queen of Sheba? Came from Ethiopia, and Ethiopia was one of the last to ban slavery. And yes, they had a writing system for a very long time.
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But those don't count as Lynchings, those are just plain murders, all lynchings are murders but not all murders are lynchings. Lynchings are very public demonstrations, there is no hidden motive behind them, no attempts at denying their purpose. They rip you out of your home, and drag you to some public place, and kill you. They are used to intimidate, to say "if you step out of line, we will kill you". It's not done by individuals, it's done by a mob of people, to completely dominate.
As for the Trayvon Martin shooting, I've been looking to The Young Turks for info on this and they did show that apparently zimmerman very much might have been hurt. With that last piece of info I've decided to leave the decision of guilt to the jury to decide, since I don't know everything that's going on and it's no longer as one sided as it originally seemed.
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Zimmerman stalked (after the dispatcher told him not to) and killed an unarmed kid, according to stand your ground laws Martin had a right to self defense and could have rightly killed Zimmerman, but as we see from CeCe McDonald, self defense only works if your victim is of colour, not if you're of colour and the dead is white.
And lawfully sanctioned murder can be pretty horrific, I would not want to have been Troy Davis and have been played with for so many years. We celebrate the death of black people even if we're not publicly there, through selling target practice or doing black face in the hoodie and posting it online. The public sphere is extended, there's no personal guilt in being part of it but you can celebrate it all the same.
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05-17-2012, 03:49 PM
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#31
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaye Jang
Not "flaunting" my "roots." Lost my mom the Thanksgiving before last, and my great-aunt last year, thus, the only remaining member of my mom's family to carry the family name. So, my mom's family is essentially extinct. My great-grandfather only had 2 children, my grandmother and my great-uncle, and they both had girls, so the family lineage died with my great-uncle. My great-grandfather's only brother never had any children, so when my maternal great-aunt died last year, so did the family name. I now have only half of a family -- my dad's side. That's why I got interested in geneology. (If I don't have at least SOME relatives somewhere on my mom's side of the family, 50% of my family has gone the way of the dodo. My siblings and I carry the bloodline, but it's rapidly becoming dilute). And the family name is no longer even in the local phone directory in my mom's home town. That's kind of a shock.
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Not sufficient. Telling a personal story doesn't make something more valid or less valid.
Also, a family doesn't become extinct because the name isn't used anymore, and that in fact would be diametrically opposed to the basic premise of finding racial roots.
The basic point is this: if you weren't raised in an ethnicity's culture, you're simply not a part of that ethnicity.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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05-17-2012, 04:08 PM
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#32
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
The basic point is this: if you weren't raised in an ethnicity's culture, you're simply not a part of that ethnicity.
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I understand what you're trying to say, but I'm not sure about the language. An native american who is adopted by a white family is not white.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.
-Breathin, Tupac.
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05-17-2012, 04:14 PM
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#33
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
The basic point is this: if you weren't raised in an ethnicity's culture, you're simply not a part of that ethnicity.
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Yes and no, I wasn't raised in Germany but my family does have a lot of traditions and family recipes that clearly come from our German roots. I wouldn't identify as a German but learning about my family's past helps me to understand the reasons behind all of those weird little things that we do.
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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05-17-2012, 04:16 PM
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#34
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Not sufficient. Telling a personal story doesn't make something more valid or less valid.
Also, a family doesn't become extinct because the name isn't used anymore, and that in fact would be diametrically opposed to the basic premise of finding racial roots.
The basic point is this: if you weren't raised in an ethnicity's culture, you're simply not a part of that ethnicity.
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Okay, so if you went with that philosophy then you have just contradicted yourself, because the point of finding your ones racial roots is so you can identify with your ethnicity. Likewise, if not being raised in an ethinicity's culture would not make you part of that ethnicity, then Native Americans, Hispanics, etc., who were raised outside of their culture would lose their cultural identity and African-Americans would have to call themselves something else, since most of them have never even been to Africa.
As for losing part of my family identity, it's like Thomas Wolfe said, "You can't go home again."
(Btw, just as an aside, are you the Alan who's Irish? If so, then you're forgiven for being opinionated ;>).
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05-17-2012, 04:18 PM
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#35
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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We have an Iris Alan?
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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05-17-2012, 04:24 PM
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#36
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solumina
We have an Iris Alan?
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He goes by the user name Elektrosexual, although I don't know if it's the same Alan or not.
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05-17-2012, 04:35 PM
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#37
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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Oh I didn't know his name was Alan, or Irish for that matter, and no this Alan isn't him.
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
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Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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05-17-2012, 04:36 PM
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#38
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dude, I don't even know where I live anymore.
Posts: 1,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaye Jang
(Btw, just as an aside, are you the Alan who's Irish? If so, then you're forgiven for being opinionated ;>).
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So him being Irish changes your opinion of whether he deserves his opinion?
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Caution, I may bite.
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05-17-2012, 04:38 PM
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#39
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaye Jang
Okay, so if you went with that philosophy then you have just contradicted yourself, because the point of finding your ones racial roots is so you can identify with your ethnicity. Likewise, if not being raised in an ethinicity's culture would not make you part of that ethnicity, then Native Americans, Hispanics, etc., who were raised outside of their culture would lose their cultural identity and African-Americans would have to call themselves something else, since most of them have never even been to Africa.
As for losing part of my family identity, it's like Thomas Wolfe said, "You can't go home again."
(Btw, just as an aside, are you the Alan who's Irish? If so, then you're forgiven for being opinionated ;>).
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You don't get an opinion about race. Please shut the fuck up and listen.
__________________
Woke up with fifty enemies plottin' my death
All fifty seein' visions of me shot in the chest
Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.
-Breathin, Tupac.
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05-17-2012, 04:43 PM
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#40
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solumina
Yes and no, I wasn't raised in Germany but my family does have a lot of traditions and family recipes that clearly come from our German roots. I wouldn't identify as a German but learning about my family's past helps me to understand the reasons behind all of those weird little things that we do.
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I cook Italian and Asian food and Irish food and German food ALL THE TIME. Clearly I'm half Italian, half Asian, half Irish, half German, and half white.
__________________
"Women hold up half the sky" -Mao
"God always picks the strangest things to get angry about. Get an abortion or gay married and he'll aim a tornado right at you.
Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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05-17-2012, 04:49 PM
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#41
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaye Jang
Okay, so if you went with that philosophy then you have just contradicted yourself, because the point of finding your ones racial roots is so you can identify with your ethnicity.
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You're a white American. Just cause you have one drop of Irish blood in you doesn't mean you can start arbitrarily adopting an Irish accent, wearing tartan, and hunting for leprechauns. It's arbitrary bullshit and it actually is offensive structurally to do so.
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Likewise, if not being raised in an ethinicity's culture would not make you part of that ethnicity, then Native Americans, Hispanics, etc., who were raised outside of their culture would lose their cultural identity and African-Americans would have to call themselves something else, since most of them have never even been to Africa.
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You do realize that minorities still have these aspects of their cultures in the US because immigrants tended to stick together in small communities in the face of the more white washed Americans that dominated everything. Again, if you have Irish blood in you, it doesn't mean you're automatically part of an Irish neighborhood in Boston.
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As for losing part of my family identity, it's like Thomas Wolfe said, "You can't go home again."
(Btw, just as an aside, are you the Alan who's Irish? If so, then you're forgiven for being opinionated ;>).
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Fuck you, whitey.
__________________
"Women hold up half the sky" -Mao
"God always picks the strangest things to get angry about. Get an abortion or gay married and he'll aim a tornado right at you.
Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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05-17-2012, 04:51 PM
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#42
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshleyO
I cook Italian and Asian food and Irish food and German food ALL THE TIME. Clearly I'm half Italian, half Asian, half Irish, half German, and half white.
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It is a little different when the dish has been passed down from generation to generation and it isn't just the food itself but how the food is viewed by the family and the emotions attached to the meal. Also as I said I don't identify as German, just that I enjoy learning about and understanding where my family's traditions have come from.
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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05-17-2012, 04:52 PM
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#43
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dude, I don't even know where I live anymore.
Posts: 1,276
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My traditions involve a microwave.
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Caution, I may bite.
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05-17-2012, 04:54 PM
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#44
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solumina
It is a little different when the dish has been passed down from generation to generation and it isn't just the food itself but how the food is viewed by the family and the emotions attached to the meal. Also as I said I don't identify as German, just that I enjoy learning about and understanding where my family's traditions have come from.
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Yeah. These dishes have been passed down from generation to generation in my family. And man... I have SO many emotions invested in my food. So by your standards I'm qualified to embrace my Asian heritage.
__________________
"Women hold up half the sky" -Mao
"God always picks the strangest things to get angry about. Get an abortion or gay married and he'll aim a tornado right at you.
Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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05-17-2012, 04:56 PM
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#45
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaye Jang
Okay, so if you went with that philosophy then you have just contradicted yourself, because the point of finding your ones racial roots is so you can identify with your ethnicity.
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Learning that you are one sixteenth cherokee doesn't magically make you have cherokee ethics or hermeneutics. I fail to see the contradiction here.
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Likewise, if not being raised in an ethinicity's culture would not make you part of that ethnicity, then Native Americans, Hispanics, etc., who were raised outside of their culture would lose their cultural identity
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You mean... like Chicanos?
What's wrong with Chicanos?
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and African-Americans would have to call themselves something else, since most of them have never even been to Africa.
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That's why you call them black. It would be pretty racist to think that a black american would have more in common with a Liberian than with another American of their same socioeconomic background.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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05-17-2012, 05:00 PM
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#46
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,700
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Oh shit. Alan is laying the smack down.
__________________
"Women hold up half the sky" -Mao
"God always picks the strangest things to get angry about. Get an abortion or gay married and he'll aim a tornado right at you.
Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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05-17-2012, 05:04 PM
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#47
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solumina
Yes and no, I wasn't raised in Germany but my family does have a lot of traditions and family recipes that clearly come from our German roots. I wouldn't identify as a German but learning about my family's past helps me to understand the reasons behind all of those weird little things that we do.
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Right there you see the full importance of ethnicity. I don't agree with Ashley's response to you even as he's more withing my camp.
You saw that understanding your family's background explains several 'weird little things that [you] do', things that I as a Mexican don't share. Right there you see your family's culture permeating your life in an immanent manner.
An ethnicity isn't a switch whose only options are 'on' or 'off.' It's not whether you have, let's say, zapoteca in your blood or not. It's about belonging; it's about hermeneutics. It's about how much zapoteca culture permeates and shapes your life.
That's why if Jaye had been raised in a Swedish home, s/he'd be Swedish, but I highly doubt s/he was immanently influenced to a point of identifying as a Swede/Cherokee/French Canadian/Czech/et cetera
That's what I mean in regards to how white people see their racial background.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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05-17-2012, 05:07 PM
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#48
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 8,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshleyO
Yeah. These dishes have been passed down from generation to generation in my family. And man... I have SO many emotions invested in my food. So by your standards I'm qualified to embrace my Asian heritage.
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How exactly are you defining "embracing your heritage"? If you define it as looking to your family's past to find the why behind the things your family does then sure go ahead. If you define it as claiming I am thing thing because a small aspect of it plays a part in my life then no, that would be fucking dumb.
By the way I do find it interesting that you focused in on food and not other traditions, why is it that some people don't view culinary tradition the way they view other traditions?
__________________
Live a life less ordinary
Live a life extraordinary with me
Live a life less sedentary
Live a life evolutionary with me
-Carbon Leaf
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05-17-2012, 05:13 PM
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#49
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dude, I don't even know where I live anymore.
Posts: 1,276
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Most likely because of how widespread customary foods have become. I can literally walk down the street and order Vietnamese food made to my liking by a 17 year old white girl from Wisconsin. Traditional foods no longer mean much anymore.
__________________
Caution, I may bite.
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05-17-2012, 05:16 PM
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#50
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
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Maybe eating them don't, or at least you could make an argument about that, but preparing them I would say still holds a lot of cultural value.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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real classy
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