50 Shades Of Grey

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Versus

I... don't even. This is why nobody likes you.

Bite me Versus. If I don't ask the questions, then I will never expand my knowledge base. At least I'm willing to ask questions, that make me look stupid so I can get answers. Instead of just calling people idiots and walking off in a huff... How do you expect people to learn if you have that sort of attitude?

So if I say something like "All American's are big mouth queue jumpers" that's not racist? But if I say "All Mexicans talk like Speedy G" then that is? and can you explain the reasons behind this? (sorry my mind is mush and I'm going to ask the same inane questions over and over until it sinks it - it's the way my brain works)


MissA - thanks for the book recommendation. I'll add it to my list of reading.

I think in Switzerland they have changed the definitions of RRape - can't remember what they are but I think they would include the scenario from the book where the guy keeps kissing her even though she doesn't want it. (sorry bit fuzzy was listening to the radio, while cooking dinner and watching a three year old chuck a tanty).

[Alan]

Saya already told you. Racism equals prejudice plus power. If you're really serious that you're just trying to expand your knowledge base then you gotta listen.

[Fruitbat]

I am listening Alan. I've never studied this area before, and it's just taking some time for it to sink in.

All I'm asking for is some patience, and some rewording/examples, while I work through it.

[Saya]

Also, NATIONALITY DOES NOT EQUAL RACE. AMERICANS CAN BE BLACK, WHITE, BROWN, ANY RACE THAT EXISTS. And all countries represented in this thread have horrible histories of white supremacy or have been severely exploited by white supremist countries. Often xenophobia can also be racist (such as racism against Chinese, its xenophobic AND much if not most of the time, racist) When you say racism against Americans, chances are you're thinking of white Americans as the definitive Americans. When we say racism against Mexicans, we usually have in mind brown mestiz@s.


Secondly, that's not just Switzerland, in Canada and I'm pretty sure the states, sexual assault is any kind of unwanted sexual contact. And it doesn't change the fact that the one man of colour in the whole book forces himself on a woman with no intention of stopping, continues to escalate and probably would have resulted in rrape if our white hero didn't step in to chase him off then blame her for what happened. Its like a Klansman's ideal night out.

Also, this is basic stuff you can google and we are not your mother, your teacher, or here to educate. I only explain it because I feel like it, not because I owe you shit, and Versus certainly doesn't owe you one little tidbit of enlightenment.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

Bite me Versus. If I don't ask the questions, then I will never expand my knowledge base. At least I'm willing to ask questions, that make me look stupid so I can get answers. Instead of just calling people idiots and walking off in a huff... How do you expect people to learn if you have that sort of attitude?

So I should change my attitude and be a little more patient? You don't say.

How about this: Pull your bullshit victim twat out of the fucking sand and shut the fuck up. I don't give a fuck what your excuse is when there are I don't know how many fucking threads that cover this on this same god damn forum. Right the fuck in front of you.

Or you can spend your time with inane bullshit like talking about your signature instead of googling a single fucking word, all the while telling me that I'm the one who's fucked up. That seems to work alright.

[Miss Absynthe]

WRT the definition of "r.a.p.e", if you want to talk about it as a legal term it has varied definitions depending on where you are. However, please remember that you are using a word that has a LOT of emotional power behind it and is triggering.

As an example of how triggering it can be... I am at uni studying criminal justice and psychology, and I have been reading a LOT about r.ap.e and r.ap.e culture for the last couple of years, I am able to stay grounded and focused while doing this.

However, reading the one sentence that you posted earlier, "I think they would include the scenario from the book where the guy keeps kissing her even though she doesn't want it." triggered an acute panic attack for me.

I'm telling you this to point out that while r.ap.e may be a word with a specific legal definition, it is also a word that describes acting against someone's consent.

In Australia the line of demarcation is whether there was penetration - which means that technically if someone holds you down and tries but the angle is wrong then they didn't actually 'r.ap.e' you - why the fuck should that be the line? The perpetrators intention was very clear, the victim isn't going to feel less violated and the situation isn't less wrong.

R.ap.e isn't about a physical action, and it sure as fuck isn't about a legal definition. It is about a person's autonomy and personal power being stolen from them. It is about their ability to choose what happens to their body getting taken away.

[Miss Absynthe]

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

Bite me Versus. If I don't ask the questions, then I will never expand my knowledge base. At least I'm willing to ask questions, that make me look stupid so I can get answers. Instead of just calling people idiots and walking off in a huff... How do you expect people to learn if you have that sort of attitude?

I expect people to learn by educating themselves.

We are not obligated to teach you.

Your response should be to thank those who have graciously taken the time to discuss this with you, and to take the starting points that they've given and go and learn more.

Did you even try googling anything about this? Because you are privileged, and the assumption that others are here to be used by you for your own purpose is an extension of that privileged thinking.

[Versus]

Miss Absynthe: no matter what happens, we will always have this thread.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

R.ap.e isn't about a physical action, and it sure as fuck isn't about a legal definition. It is about a person's autonomy and personal power being stolen from them. It is about their ability to choose what happens to their body getting taken away.

[BourbonBoy]

Miss Absynthe, I owe you a beverage of your choice. You put it far better than I ever could.

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

I expect people to learn by educating themselves.

We are not obligated to teach you.

Your response should be to thank those who have graciously taken the time to discuss this with you, and to take the starting points that they've given and go and learn more.

Did you even try googling anything about this? Because you are privileged, and the assumption that others are here to be used by you for your own purpose is an extension of that privileged thinking.

Miss A - graciousness is not something that is accepted on g.net. I don't have a great deal of time to spend googling for answers (which is what I will do from now on - or else just remain ignorant like everyone else).

Yes I understand the prejudices, the powers, the racism - but that's not the sort of answer anyone here wants to hear. I was merely trying to see the character from the perspective of others.

I'm very thankful to the people (such as yourself and BB) who answered my questions without agression. So thankyou.

Answering anymore of your post will only get me shot down in flames, and I'm over putting a target on my back and waiting for the knives to be thrown.

[Alan]

Seeing the character from the perspective of others? From the perspective of a r.aping stereotype?
It's obvious you weren't actually trying to learn shit; you were just using the language of Glenn Beck of 'is it wrong for me to ask charged questions? I'm the victim here!!'

[Miss Absynthe]

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

Miss A - graciousness is not something that is accepted on g.net. I don't have a great deal of time to spend googling for answers (which is what I will do from now on - or else just remain ignorant like everyone else).

Yes I understand the prejudices, the powers, the racism - but that's not the sort of answer anyone here wants to hear. I was merely trying to see the character from the perspective of others.

I'm very thankful to the people (such as yourself and BB) who answered my questions without agression. So thankyou.

Answering anymore of your post will only get me shot down in flames, and I'm over putting a target on my back and waiting for the knives to be thrown.

The level to which graciousness may or may not be accepted on g.net (personally, I've actually always found that it has been.. which is why I enjoy coming here) should not affect your response to that graciousness. That is simply deciding not to thank someone for the simple reason that no one else is saying thanks - it's a poor excuse for bad manners and a certain invitation for a spanking as far as I'm concerned.

As for not having time to spend googling for answers.. bullshit. Do you piss yourself in public, or do you have the self-discipline to find the time to go to the bathroom? It is the same thing here - we are asking you not to piss your privilege all over those around you.

Use your self-discipline, realise that there is something that you need to teach yourself here AND actually make it a priority to learn these things.

[Fruitbat]

Okay, I saw the character as:

-Fast talking - meant he was nervous.

-The kissing scene was him trying to show Ana that if they kissed, then maybe she would like him.

So yes, how I viewed the character was very naive view of the character and simply wanted to see how he could be perceived as being a rrapist and racism.

I tend to look at people for their personalities not because of their nationality - but then I'm sure there's a ton of issues you guys can find wrong with the fact that I take people based on who they are, not what they look like. I don't look at a person and say "Wow they aren't white so that must mean {insert stereotype}"

But I guess my world view of there are assholes in every race, and there are wonderful generous people in every race, is really racist and completely wrong, and I'll have to do a thesis in racism to prove that my theory in practice is really a crock of shit.

[Alan]

See how you were never really trying to learn shit? You're just a douche.

[Saya]

Claiming colorblindness actually means you're probably racist: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...is-form-racism

[BourbonBoy]

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

Okay, I saw the character as:

-Fast talking - meant he was nervous.

-The kissing scene was him trying to show Ana that if they kissed, then maybe she would like him.

So yes, how I viewed the character was very naive view of the character and simply wanted to see how he could be perceived as being a rrapist and racism.

I tend to look at people for their personalities not because of their nationality - but then I'm sure there's a ton of issues you guys can find wrong with the fact that I take people based on who they are, not what they look like. I don't look at a person and say "Wow they aren't white so that must mean {insert stereotype}"

But I guess my world view of there are assholes in every race, and there are wonderful generous people in every race, is really racist and completely wrong, and I'll have to do a thesis in racism to prove that my theory in practice is really a crock of shit.

No, that means you fail to look at it from the perspective that due to one's skin color, surname or even the region he/she comes from they most likely had to deal with the kind of bullshit that would make an individual highly distrustful of anyone not coming from a similar background as them. When one sees their ethnic group being stereotyped, it's beyond infuriating and quite honestly, they feel that whoever wrote the drivel is being arrogant and patronizing. Quit the "what? I didn't see a stereotype, I'm the victim for not knowing" and admit that you just read a book where the only minority in the story was a racial stereotype who attempted to r@pe the story's protagonist and you didn't think twice about it.

[Saya]

Not to mention that IT ISNT A PERSON ITS A BOOK CHARACTER. A very one dimensional character who basically enters the story, talks like Speedy Gonzales and then leaves the scene, at least until the scene where he forces himself on Ana. His ethnicity is slapped in your face whenever he speaks and you're still going to pull the "I just don't see it!"?

As racist as Twilight was, AT LEAST Meyer gave Jacob character traits beyond his stereotype (hey! He's good at mechanics! That's something?) and even gave him a happy, albeit gross, ending.

[BourbonBoy]

Noooooo!!!1!

You had to remind me of the pedowolf!

[Miss Absynthe]

Originally Posted by BourbonBoy

No, that means you fail to look at it from the perspective that due to one's skin color, surname or even the region he/she comes from they most likely had to deal with the kind of bullshit that would make an individual highly distrustful of anyone not coming from a similar background as them. When one sees their ethnic group being stereotyped, it's beyond infuriating and quite honestly, they feel that whoever wrote the drivel is being arrogant and patronizing. Quit the "what? I didn't see a stereotype, I'm the victim for not knowing" and admit that you just read a book where the only minority in the story was a racial stereotype who attempted to r@pe the story's protagonist and you didn't think twice about it.

BB is right.

The big aspect to this that you are missing is the concept of privilege. Did you read the Peggy McIntosh essay that I posted? Did you think about it?

[Acharis]

Why did I click this. -_-

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/cu...ty-shades-grey

[Fruitbat]

Indeed I did read the Peggy article. However I was merely pointing out how I saw the character.

Signed,

The ever sheltered, stupid and naive fruitbat, who choses not to look at the races of the world, but choses to look at the person beneath... (and how wrong is that!)

PS. I know I should get me some education on this issue, but I'm already stretched to the max.

So on your voting form for moron of the year (2013) don't forget to put a one next to my name.

Cheers

[Miss Absynthe]

Nice reframe to make you the victim in this situation. It's an impressive move.

[BourbonBoy]

[BourbonBoy]

Since the image didn't post earlier