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Old 07-31-2010, 04:50 PM   #26
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And I am a person of color...I'm not black
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:53 PM   #27
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Man am I sick of seeing this. Complain, complain, complain about how ignorant people are, then insult and harass them rather than making any attempt to educate them. For those of you who can’t be bothered to address the topic of this thread, why would you even post anything? In case it has escaped you r attention you are, in essence, trolling this thread. Who needs outsiders when we have you guys on the job?

*rubs bridge of nose*

Anyway, I’m not posting this to just to start a dust-up; I just thought I would add my two cents to the topic since I happen to actually BE an African American Goth, and I happen to have a couple of decades in the culture under my belt. What follows is my particular point of view; take it or leave it.

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Originally Posted by OnyxBat View Post
Ok it's really rare to find a Black goth girl or
boy.
This is true, but only to a point. You will notice that there are many people who look and sound like Goths, but either refuse to self-identity themselves as such, or never conclude that their opinions and interests fall under the definition. This is true not only of the general population, but of African American as well. There are numerous instances in popular culture, from music to fashion, in which a Gothic aesthetic can be seen in what is typically pigeonholed as “Black culture”.

They’re out there, just not where you would typically expect to find them or wearing what you would typically expect them to wear. I should know; no matter what I wear, most non-Goths think "thug" or "musician" or "cop" long before "Goth" occurs to them (if ever).


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I've read some stories and about them and how non black goths are racist towards them.
I happen to have lived in Minneapolis most of my life. For those of you not up on your demographics, Minneapolis and its sister city St. Paul comprise the second Whitest urban area in the country, right behind Salt Lake City. I have yet to experience outright racism in the Gothic culture here. Generally, the Goths here all feel as though they are unacceptable in the eyes of society at large, whether because of how they look or what they think. In this atmosphere, dark skin is simply one more difference. As a result of this attitude, the Goths I've come into contact with have not treated me noticeable different from how I've seen them treat anyone else.


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I would just like some opinons on how you would approach one.
No one appreciates having others focus on their physical appearance to the exclusion of everything else. Would you need to approach a girl with big boobs differently? How about a really tall person or an overweight person? As they say, we’re all the same color on the inside. Concern yourself with the person inside; who they are and what they’re about. The rest is no big deal unless something relevant occurs. In those cases, just be honest. It's only the ignorant who will take offense and refuse to tolerate simple, inoffensive questions.

[quote]And how would there own race see them.[/QUOTE
No one believes “White people” are a singular group; everyone recognizes the various cultures and ethnicities that comprise this group (Italians vs. Irish, country vs. hipster, etc.). My question is: why assume African Americans all think the same or are into the same things? There are numerous subgroups within this ethnicity. Thinking in terms of “their own race” ignores the similarly wide variations within what people typically refer to as “Black culture”.

Don't get me wrong; there are indeed “ultra-culturalists” who denigrate anyone and anything they believe isn’t “Black” enough, just as there are those in society who harbor a hatred for anything “non-White”. The number of people whose minds are THAT narrow is relatively small among both groups


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*this is not a racist thread*
Unlike a few too many others you might find on this board, I can (usually) tell the difference between ignorance and malice. I applaud you for being willing to stand up and make an attempt to educate yourself about what you see as a valid issue.


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Old 07-31-2010, 06:07 PM   #28
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Very well said, Heretic.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:15 PM   #29
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Thank you, I really didn't mean for that to sound racist in any form, and not to offend people. I just thought it was a intresting topic thats all.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:44 PM   #30
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Gnet has black goth members:

BlackButterfly:
https://www.gothic.net/boards/member.php?u=4405

BLEED REBELION!!!:
https://www.gothic.net/boards/member.php?u=9536

Mrs. Wes Straker:
https://www.gothic.net/boards/member.php?u=10839

and others. Maybe I will do a Goth video of just them, I have the photos they uploaded. They are already in my videos:

Mrs. Wes Straker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gmSylWYBCM
(4:01 into the video)
Black Butterfly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyU3qkscHD0
(2:07 into the video)
BLEED:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E1PM6ZulGc
(2:24 into the video, wearing blue face makeup)
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Old 07-31-2010, 08:05 PM   #31
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Heretic, you are far too nice to people who don't deserve it.
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Old 07-31-2010, 08:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenorePoe View Post
looks wise I agree... it just doesn't look good.
"Looks wise"? Could you elaborate of what you mean by that? I'm having a hard time picturing what a White Goth might wear that a Goth with darker skin couldn't (besides white theatrical make-up, of course ).


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Old 07-31-2010, 08:24 PM   #33
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Here is a video from BlackButterfly to Gnet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_aPr...eature=related
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Old 07-31-2010, 08:33 PM   #34
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At my highschool there was only one black goth and I sort of had crush on her, god now that i think about it she seemed to be interested in me aswell the only brown in school with tripp pants ...

damnit man WHY did i choose the mexican/cholo clique over the goths.

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Old 07-31-2010, 08:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hearts_Purple View Post
Heretic, you are far too nice to people who don't deserve it.
You may be mistaking etiquette and civility for undeserved niceties. Trust me; though I am typically pleasant enough to people, I am not the nicest person you're going to meet.


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Old 07-31-2010, 08:57 PM   #36
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I went away for a good while. I picked this as the 1st thread to visit on my return & the immediate reaction to the sniping is:

Anyhoo, there are a lot of gothic subgenres I don't see around here, or even black goths. Damn shame IMHO. Its the just the generic type around these parts (& as cliquish as I remember high school being).
Regardless if I saw a black goth I'd probably smile in relief, & say hello if the opportunity presented itself.
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Old 08-01-2010, 03:09 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxBat View Post
And Amy Lee is just a dipshit of a singer that can sing .
Man, this sentence ain't easy on the eyes.

Where do you live? Upstate?

Because if you lived in the city, you would meet many black goths.
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Old 08-01-2010, 03:24 PM   #38
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Man, I take a week off to go on vacation, and this is what happens. In fact, the general idiocy level of new posts here ratcheted up a bit overall.

The OP doesn't look racist, but it was a dumb thing to say.

And it does look like this thread could become another troll magnet like the "Blacks Make Terrible Vampires" thread which keeps getting resurrected by new ogres from time to time. Meh.
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Old 08-01-2010, 03:35 PM   #39
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You I know I stated it wrong.
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Old 08-01-2010, 03:37 PM   #40
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The Amy lee thing that I said I missed out the can't in can sorry.
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Old 08-01-2010, 05:24 PM   #41
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Onxybat there is a lot here so pay attention

Fuck you Amy Lee is awesome

As a goth trying to get more persons of African decent into the scene (if such a thing is possible) fuck you for thinking it doesnt look good. Black women look the best with black lipstick on.

as a man of eastern European decent who was born in America against my will and who has a taste for sexual dark chocolate fuck you again for being a racist. I have met and maintain friends with several black goths (redundant much?) and they continually look awesome and surpass the whitest white face ghostly chick (also very attractive) in grace confidence and total attractive score.

If you're trying to approach a black goth focus more on the goth and not on the black
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Old 08-01-2010, 05:35 PM   #42
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Screw you to
I know they look awsome and that black lip stick looks better on them.
AND LEARN HOW TO READ
I AM NOT A RACIST !
AND AMY LEE SUX
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:00 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeal18 View Post
Fuck you Amy Lee is awesome
A matter of some dispute, as is the quality of all music. For me, Amy Lee is only "meh" without collaborating with Ben Moody. We know she can sing. The question now is: is she an artist in her own right?

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As a goth trying to get more persons of African decent into the scene (if such a thing is possible) fuck you for thinking it doesnt look good.
I'm still waiting for clarification on that particular opinion myself, from more than one poster to this thread. Besides, as most anyone will tell you, the so-called "Goth" look is more about HOW you wear what you choose to wear, rather than how closely you adhere to some stereotypical uniform.

Quote:
as a man of eastern European decent who was born in America against my will and who has a taste for sexual dark chocolate fuck you again for being a racist.
OnyxBat admitted their ignorance and was asking for honest opinions on the topic of this thread. Seen in that light, is there really any point to insulting them?

To expand on something I mentioned earlier, there is a difference between being ignorant of ethnic issues and maintaining an illusion of racial superiority, supported by maliciously biased behavior. You would do well learning to tell the difference; it might make addressing issues such as this easier.

Your sensitivity to this issue is understandable, considering the fact that you have African American friends who are a part of the Gothic community. It is commendable that you feel the need to directly confront what you obviously perceived as racist behavior in this thread. However, overreacting to questions as simple as this does not contribute to open and honest discussion. For every genuinely curious person you "put in their place", a dozen others will see that reaction and say, "Well, shit. What's the point of even expressing my opinion on THAT if I'm just going to get my ass handed to me?"

Take it from one who is intimately aware of this exact issue and how difficult it is to get people to honestly express their opinions on the subject.

Quote:
I have met and maintain friends with several black goths (redundant much?) and they continually look awesome and surpass the whitest white face ghostly chick (also very attractive) in grace confidence and total attractive score.
My wife was in Savannah, GA earlier this year, loved the place, and seems intent on dragging me down there (the haunted tours are what really did it). If she succeeds, I might need to pick your brain to see if you can recommend places where an African American Goth from the Midwest might feel welcome.

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If you're trying to approach a black goth focus more on the goth and not on the black
Just what I said, only with less hot air.


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Old 08-01-2010, 07:11 PM   #44
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Quote:
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The Amy lee thing that I said I missed out the can't in can sorry.
How can one not appreciate this song?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di8zQcabGBc
(No, it is not My Immortal.)

OK, so Amy Lee is not in the same League as Siouxsie or Lisa Gerard, but she is easily in the same league as Clan of Xymox, Lacuna Coil or Within Temptation.
Come on, she has talent.
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:32 PM   #45
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:45 AM   #46
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This thread is officially about Amy Lee now.

Anyone who needs that much alteration on her voice isn't good. In EVERY song, including "My Immortal," there's an incredible amount of voice effects. Besides that, she sings the same four notes over and over again.
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Old 08-02-2010, 06:10 AM   #47
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Ok she has a talent but she has a temper to. She was dating the lead singer from seether and then when they broke up she wrote the song call me when you sober and I think it's unfair to share her ex's and hers problem to the world.
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:15 AM   #48
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Ok she has a talent but she has a temper to. She was dating the lead singer from seether and then when they broke up she wrote the song call me when you sober and I think it's unfair to share her ex's and hers problem to the world.
You're kidding, right? Half of all music is comprised of love songs, split 50-50 between the joy of love discovered and the bitterness of love lost. Take away rants and screeds against ex-lovers, and most of the music on the radio would disappear.


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Old 08-02-2010, 08:57 AM   #49
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True but she made it to direct towards her ex's.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:13 AM   #50
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About the Topic: I don't honestly know if I've encountered any black Goths, but it wouldn't surprise me. Then again, it's rare that I come across another Goth period [or, at least an obvious one], since I don't go to clubs much.

About Amy Lee: Save on very rare occasions, I could care less as to the exact reasons why musical artists sing particular songs.

A lot of her songs make me cry, since they hit me square on my most vulnerable personal spots. Call Me When You're Sober is one of those, because she's singing about something that anyone who has had to deal with an alcoholic in their personal life can relate to.
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