"Flagged Down"

[Beneath the Shadows]

Flagged down: Activists arrested in row over protest flag, allege abuse by Buncombe deputy

by David Forbes on 07/26/2007

The Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office arrested activists Mark and Deborah Kuhn in West Asheville Wednesday morning after a complaint that the couple was desecrating an American flag. They say a deputy invaded their home and used excessive force.

The flag was hung upside down as an act of protest and had several statements pinned to it, including a picture of President Bush with the words “Out Now” upon it and one explaining the meaning of the upside down flag, a sign of distress.

The Kuhns, along with several neighbors and witnesses, assert that a sheriff’s deputy violently invaded their home at 68 Brevard Road. The sheriff’s office claims that the couple assaulted deputy Brian Scarborough and resisted arrest.

According to the report from the sheriff’s office, Scarborough arrived at the home at 8:45 a.m. in response to a complaint about the desecration of a flag.

Lt. Randy Sorrell says that while the address was in the city of Asheville, “when we receive a complaint that the law is being broken, we have to respond.”

Under a rarely enforced state statute, it is a misdemeanor to desecrate or trample a U.S. or North Carolina flag. The Kuhns said the flag was taken as evidence, though the sheriff’s department has no record of it.

After knocking on the door, the couple answered it and, after being shown the statute, said they complied and took the flag down. Scarborough then asked for their identification.

“The flag covered our whole front porch; he comes up with this printout about the law and tells us that we can’t attach things to the flag, that we’re desecrating it,” Deborah Kuhn said. “We tell him we’re not meaning to desecrate it — all we had was a picture of [President] Bush with ‘out now’ on it and a note saying this was not a sign of distress or disrespect. We did this because the country is in distress and we don’t know what to do.”

Then, she said, Scarborough “started talking arrest, so we took the flag down. He kept wanting to see our ID. We refused. We said, ‘Why should we show you our ID — are you arresting us?’; so we walked back into the house and closed the door.”

There, the accounts diverge. According to Deborah Kuhn, Scarborough “tried to force the door, but we got it closed and locked it with the deadbolt. He then kicked it, punched the glass out, unlocked our door and came after us.”

The sheriff’s office report states that “the man [Mark Kuhn] refused to identify himself and slammed the door on the officer’s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting the officer’s hand.”

However, the Kuhns’ account is backed up by Jimmy Stevenson, who was working with Ace Hardwood Floors nearby and asserts that he saw Scarborough break down the door.

“I saw that one cop [Scarborough] pull up and I saw those people come out on the porch and start talking to him,” Stevenson said. “They took their flag down, asked the officer to leave and closed the door. Then he started kicking the door, he kicked it about five or six good times, then he laid right into it. After he got done kicking it, he broke the window out – I saw him hit the window.”

Deborah Kuhn says that Scarborough then “pursued my husband into the kitchen, they were scuffling, [and] Mark was trying to get away from him. He pulls out his billy club and I call 911 and say that an officer has broken into our house and is assaulting us.”

Scarborough sustained a cut to his arm when the window broke and Mark Kuhn had several cuts on his face from the scuffle with Scarborough.

“I was just trying to defend myself and back away from him,” Kuhn said. “They never, ever told us why we were being arrested until we were in jail.”

Deborah Kuhn asserted that no warrant was displayed or permission asked to enter the house. After calling 911, she says, she ran outside and began screaming for help.

Sam York, who lives nearby the couple, was awakened by the struggle, as the Kuhns and Scarborough both came out into the yard. “I woke up to Debbie screaming,” he said. “Mark and Debbie were saying ‘you assaulted us’ and the officer [Scarborough], was demanding their identification. Then another officer threatened them with a taser. He told Debbie to back away or he’d taser her and demanded that Mark get on the ground.”

Sorrell confirms this part of the account: “When they were outside, one of the other officers produced a taser and he [Mark Kuhn] surrendered and submitted.”

Deborah Kuhn’s screams also drew the attention of Shawn Brady and several of his roommates, who live next door to the couple. “I run outside and ask them what’s going on and there’s cops chasing Mark around his car,” Brady said. “They threaten to taser him and demand that he get on the ground. He gets on the ground and we ask them what they’re being charged with. They tell us it’s none of our concern. I tell them they’re our neighbors and it is our concern.”

Neal Wilson, who lives with Brady, also saw the deputy produce the taser, he says. After repeated questions, Brady and roommate Tony Plichta said that the deputies replied that “they didn’t know yet” what the couple would be charged with.

“This is an outrage,” Brady said. “The 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments were clearly broken today.”
Plichta expressed similar anger. “They actually wanted to know why we cared — these are our neighbors,” he said.

Following the arrest, the Kuhns were taken to the Buncombe County Detention Facility, where they were charged with two counts of assaulting a government official, and one count each of resisting arrest and desecrating an American flag. Their son posted their bail shortly afterwards.

This was not the first time that the flag had attracted attention. On July 18, with just the upside-down flag hanging, an Asheville police officer stopped by to inquire about the situation.

“He was very polite and just said that because it was a sign of distress, he wanted to make sure everything was OK,” Deborah Kuhn said. “We said we had it out as a show of desperation — our country is in distress and we just don’t know what to do. We asked if we had violated any ordinance. He said, ‘No, you have every right.’”

After that, Deborah Kuhn said that she posted up the picture of Bush and the explanation of their reasons for displaying the flag in protest.

A couple of days later, Mark Kuhn said that a man in military fatigues came to their door, and was driving a car with a federal license plate. “He stood here telling me that I needed to take the flag down or fly it right,” he said.

Kuhn adds that he assumed the man was with the National Guard, due to the nearby armory.

Wilson, Plichta and Brady said that after the man stopped by, they also saw him drive by several times during the following days, and one night, witnessed several other men in fatigues taking pictures of the flag.

Furthermore, Wilson said that as the Kuhns were being arrested and taken off, he saw a man in fatigues drive by and shout “Go to jail, baby!”

After his experience, Mark Kuhn said he is convinced this is not an isolated occurrence. “If Americans don’t wake up to the martial state we’re in, the cops, the police, the sheriffs, the state police will all come to our door and take us away if we allow this to happen – it’s time for America to wake up.”

— David Forbes, staff writer

Source article.
I'm not quite sure what to say about this. What do you think?

[Underwater Ophelia]

I wish I could say I'm shocked that the police would act this way, but I guess I'm not. This is just disgusting. I hope it goes to court and some major changes are made.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Doesn't surprise me. We Americans talk a good game when it comes to respecting freedoms, but in action we're total hypocrites.

[Drake Dun]

I think this is a really excellent example of the warping effects of the police institution. That Sherriff is probably not a horrible a guy (although he is almost definitely lying about what happened, and I resent that). What happens is that you put these guys in a position where they're forced to go around involving themselves in other people's conflicts, and you give them weapons and authority... duh. Of course they are going to turn into assholes.

Remember the Stanford prison experiment?

The same goes for soldiers. You give a guy all these tools that are designed for the sole purpose of killing fellow humans, and you tell him to go to some far away place he doesn't personally give a shit about and murder people there, but oh by the way, only murder these people and not those people, if you can help it. Of course he is going to commit atrocities.

Basically a cop or soldier is asked to be a bully or murderer and then told he has to be a discriminate, circumspect, and courteous bully or murderer. It's totally absurd.

Drake

[CptSternn]

This is something new? This sort of thing happens daily around America, it just never makes the news because they usually don't have a eyewitness who can verify it as they did in this case.

I can personally attest to three or four similar incidents I had with police in at least 3 states when I lived there.

Once, during a weekend where a couple mates of mine bought a keg of beer and invited a few mates over to watch Notre Dame in the playoffs our home was raided by ABC agents and local drug task force agents. Why? They went around to the local shops that sold kegs, got a list of kegs with addresses they would be at, and then went to each house, and raided them checking for underage persons and drug use.

We had neither, and after about 20 minutes of checking all of our ID's and running our names through dispatch they finally left.

I was pulled over for having a sticker with a lady in a revealing top. It wasn't on the bumper, but the side back window. I was pulled over, they searched my car, me, asked tonnes of questions, then said pictures of women in bikinis are illegal to display on cars. I asked what statue does that law fall under? I was told to either shutup and remove that sticker, else I be arrested and my car impounded.

I could go on for hours about how police nationwide for quite some time have been making it up as they go along, abusing their power, but its safe to say with bush leading the country with a 'go it alone' that citizens and of course law enforcement are going to pick up on that and do it if not by choice subconsciously.

With bush now passing laws to remove all of the Bill Of Rights, and then arguing in court the laws don't apply to him or his staff, of course police are going to get more and more heavy handed, especially when they think that people will back them.

If they detain a possible terrorist suspect, who gets a good beating at the time of arrest, they know public support will be with them so of course they will do it. If they think most people in a community will be offended by people desecrating a flag, of course they are going to be heavy handed because they aren't worried about the law - they have now learned that its ok to break the laws you enforce if you do so to make a certain group of Americans happy.

No longer do they worry about inquires into their actions, they merely have a press conference and wave a flag around and the charges will be dropped.

[Anguelon]

This same crap happens in Lebanon but with a touch of mega police and secret services brutality. Can anyone spell torture?

[Lapin]

This absolutely terrifies me. What happened to "freedom of speech" and the "right to protest"? What is this country becoming?

Why is it we're supposed to be "freeing" a country, while our own is starting to go down a rather scary road?

I'm getting out, quickly. My family went to the camps and the chambers once already. I will not be the next generation to go.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Lapin

This absolutely terrifies me. What happened to "freedom of speech" and the "right to protest"? What is this country becoming?

Why is it we're supposed to be "freeing" a country, while our own is starting to go down a rather scary road?

I'm getting out, quickly. My family went to the camps and the chambers once already. I will not be the next generation to go.

Thats the same thing I say in many threads here.

The fact Americans are being told to 'give up' their freedom, in the name of security, and they do so without asking questions.

Don't get me started on the 'right to protest'. The fact they now have 'protest zones' and if you don't abide by the 'law' and only protest in the 'designated area' you can be arrested really should bother people. When bush visits an area, they setup a literal pen - encased in mesh wire miles away from the event where 'protesters' are forced to go, else be arrested.

Is this freedom of speech? Is this the right to protest?

The fact that all the new 'security' measures that they have put in place only affect Americans doesn't seem to set off any bells or whistles with anyone yet. I mean, having the US government spy on it's own people, having them search through US citizens' bank records, medical records, shopping club purchases, etc. - how exactly is that supposed to stop a terrorist attack from the Arab world? It isn't . They are trying to put in place measures to stop the American people from being able to rise up against the government, not protecting the people from an outside threat.

All the liberties that Americans have given up have no effect on the Arab world. The US isn't spying on Arabs in the same way its spying on its own people. Travel restrictions, ID cards, these are to stop home brew terrorists, American citizens, not foreign nationals.

The US government is actively building a police state to keep its own people under their thumb. None of the 'acts' bush has put in place that strip US citizens of their rights have any effect outside US borders. To think that the loss of liberties for Americans is somehow helping defeat terrorism half a world away is laughable at best.

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

[CptSternn]

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...D=200770802076

Asheville – Buncombe County Sheriff Van Duncan today said charges have been dropped against a couple accused of flag desecration and assaulting a deputy last week.

Score one for the good guys. Thank GOD there was a witness, else they would have done time.

[ArtificialOne]

First off,

Name the freedoms that have been taken away. Name the changes to the biil of rights?

Oh, they couldn't protest? Well, what about some people who want to be patriotic?
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...flag_1031.html
http://www.academia.org/campus_repor...ov_2001_1.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1607621/posts

[Circle V]

Bush doesn't have much to do with it-- other than abuses by the FBI or CIA, potentially.

A badge and a uniform don't change the person underneath. The way I see it, policemen are as likely to be prejudiced as anyone else; perhaps they are even more likely to be dangerously nationalistic, considering the nature of their profession. Stories of police brutality against black people (recently and in history), protesters, atheists, etc, are common. These events reflect a common sentiment in the areas they occur.

They aren't necessarily the "good guys" -- merely the victims.