gay marriages - Page 4

Maimy · 05-13-2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohthefuckwell

*looks at maimy: the last one is MINE, dammit!!*

Ladies and gents, this one is strictly between me and the bitch here ...

*Wrestling OTFW to the ground*

Pay no attention to what may appear to be a death struggle!

*OOF!*
*ZOT!*
*BAP!*
*KA-POW!*

Aiiiieeeeeeeee!!!!

ohthefuckwell · 05-13-2004, 02:43 PM

*snrk*

ha!!

*looks to the crowd a la ferris bueller: she just thinks she "wrestled" me down! little does she know i laid down of my own accord*

:shock:

*taps finger tips together a la mr. burns*

alllllll part of the plan....

:twisted:

kog! put the camera down!!

tstone! i wanna see both hands.....PRONTO!!!

damn....i am fucked up today. i blame it on MSG.

ayep.....that's my story.....

comatoast · 05-13-2004, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

and i apologize for getting a bit edgy

Me? not going to apologize for being edgy.
Raven..you call yourself a Christian...so are you the kind that spits back out everything that you are taught or do you have an independent mind of your own?

Have you ever studied about the bible..the editing done by the Catholic church AND Martin Luther? Have you ever read the books ommitted from the bible(the apocrypha?) because they didn't "fit" the church's doctrine that they wanted to push. Have you ever read the gnostic texts. What are the gnostics? Well, the gnostics were sects of chiristians the the soon to be Catholic church wiped out. Very few of their books survived but those that did read like the books in the apocrypha. they portray Christ in a totally different light. How you ever read the Dead Sea scroll? Again...very good read.

If you think that your book is the flawless word of GOD then you are a fool. Man has been tampering, deleting and screwing with the passes and chapters for almost 2000 years. Do a little research..study learn, then come back...

Oh! and just for your information...Grooms were required to provide the wine for weddings,(christ turning the atwer to wine), Christ is called a Rabi several times. Pay attention..HE WAS JEWISH!!!! A requirement for being a Rabi is BEING MARRIED!!! check with the local Jewish community.
It was a wife's place to was her husbands feet(and only the wife). Mary Magdelene DID wash Chirst's feet. Also, the pouring of liquid over chirst's head by mary is symbolic and ritualistic in the old jewish world. It ment the woman was pregnant.
AND LASTLY. God gave 11 commandments. The first one being to Go forth be fruitful and multiply. He gave this to adam and to noah. Christ was THE example of what we must do. He was the example. He followed all the other commandments...why not this one.

Dismissed

The Seeker

darkpixie · 05-13-2004, 02:49 PM

well, i completely and totally agree with them. its their right to be happy and who is anyone to stop them from that? equal rights! bush is a crazy to wanna get rid of it. i think that it may be gross to some ppl to think about it. my advice to them is, dont think about it! to some ppl it may be gross to think about a guy and a girl having sex or doing things. what matters is what makes them happy and them not losing their right to be happy. not that it might gross sum ppl out, or make them made. or whatever the hell it does to them.

Morpheus_Noctifer · 05-13-2004, 03:00 PM

Good points Comatoast...

It also bears pointing out that the manuscirpts used in the New Testament were written between 30 -50 years after Christ's crucifixion and that the epistles were never meant to be the basis of a theology but were only intended to solve specific problems at specific churches. They are useful for all who read them today, but that was not their intention.

Also, a careful reading of the New Testament in Greek (and yes, I've done the same for the Old Testament in Hebrew) gives a different picture of what the writers meant than any English translation provides. Each church soon developed different understandings of major and minor points, which is why Constantine convened a synod of the bishops to establish an orthodox theology. Since then, history shows how the church viewed theological dissidents.

But for all the problems Christianity has caused and suffered, it should be remembered that Christ's message was one of reconciliation between man and the divine. His teachings were based on love and compassion for mankind, and his life exemplified his teachings. "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is a maxim that all could employ to make this world better. Unfortunately, the Church hasn't always lived up to that ideal - and that has left many people bitter and disenchanted with religion.

Would that we could only live in a world where the deed and dream are in accord. But since we don't, the best we can do is struggle to get along.

raven_of_mourning · 05-13-2004, 07:17 PM

ya know if you would fucking read what i wrote you wouldnt sound stupid, i said nothing about it being right or wrong that is peoples opinion, i stated my opinion about something because guess what, IT IS MY OPINION i do not force it on others, the idea of this thread was the question what do you think about gay marriages? there is even a ugh it's disgusting possible vote which i didnt even vote on, i do not shove this down anyone throats, i vote my opinion on something that was asked, it is my opinion and no one can say it is wrong, just as i cant say that your opinion is wrong because that is exactly what it is, an opinion. Get a fucking life.

toat.... i have an independent mind of my own, i have done my own study of the scriptures, i have read the other books, i have read translations directly from the earliest editions of the letters and books, i understand about the beaurocracy (sp?) of the catholic, protestant, church of engladn, etc...

also beleive it or not rabi simply means teacher, jesus was known as the great teacher.. but i am not getting into any more arguments.... just saying. and i wasnt saying that there was no possible way that jesus was married, i havent done complete study on that point, even though i intend to now... simply saying dont beleive everything you see

raven_of_mourning · 05-13-2004, 08:37 PM

get a fucking life, this thread asked for opinions on something, i gave mine, i was asked the questions starting the religious debate, i asked no one the questions. i was wrong with my spelling of hipocrisy so fucking sue me asshole. i never said i was a spokesman for the church, the major churches of christendom are full of contradiction and wrong teachings, i wouldnt want to be a fucking spokesman for the church.

Quote:

No, by all means don’t believe everything you see but you better fucking believe the good book! Fucktard fucktard fucktard

i never said that you must beleive the bible, i am saying that people who profess to beleive it and do something that goes against it, IN MY OPINION FUCKTARD, is wrong but hey everyone has their own choice.
you obvious has problems you need to work out, getting so angry on a subject against a person you have never met over a subject that was posted for opinions.

comatoast · 05-13-2004, 08:41 PM

Morpheus, You also made very good points. Christ taught tolerance and it does sicken me to see man twist that into something perverted and dark. But, so is the way of man.
The books(namely matthew,mark,luke and john) being written so long asfter Christ's death is why I recommended the gnostic texts. The have been shown to have been written closer to chirsts life and some,possibly, during his life. That coupled with they fact that they were hidden away until last century means they are less corrupted than the other texts.

We could have a long talk about religion anytime you'd like. It is one of my passions.

Tstone,
Ummm...I couldn't stop rolling when I read your post. I have always admired your wit and intelligence but you really out did yourself this time.
We are , truly, no worthy.

comatoast · 05-13-2004, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

toat.... i have an independent mind of my own, i have done my own study of the scriptures, i have read the other books, i have read translations directly from the earliest editions of the letters and books, i understand about the beaurocracy (sp?) of the catholic, protestant, church of engladn, etc...

also beleive it or not rabi simply means teacher, jesus was known as the great teacher...

Ahhhh...you see, my friends here call me coma or toasty or CT. Some call me my favorite name, Priest. :twisted: You can't even spell toast properly and you expect me to take anything you say seriously?

The rabi meaning teacher shtick...yeah...no shit. That, though, is the christian communities way of refusing to see that Christ was jewish and a JEWISH leader(hell, he was of royal blood). He was required to be married to attain the status of RABI. It was not like paul and peter and judas went around calling him Rabi the way you would call a friend, bro. He was a reformist jew but he was a jew none the less and followed the jewish teachings. He was trying to change jewish thinking and teach a different gospel. There is no way anyone would have listened to a man that just claimed to be a Rabi. He had to have the credibility....eh..moot point on deaf ears.

I don't believe much of anything without my own research and investigation. I refuse to be a sheep.

Now.....like before

dismissed

P.S. If you want a nice THICK book on the subject.(if your mind can handle it) read "Bloodline of the Holy grail" You probably won't though...your belief system couldn't handle the trauma

raven_of_mourning · 05-13-2004, 09:05 PM

aye yes he was jewish... it was a typo i meant to say toast forgive me...
you know nothing of my beleif system, you assume things too much. oh and hey wasnt there where the pharisees themselves called jesus unlettered and ordinary? or did i just imagine that one :twisted:

comatoast · 05-13-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven_of_mourning

aye yes he was jewish... it was a typo i meant to say toast forgive me...
you know nothing of my beleif system, you assume things too much. oh and hey wasnt there where the pharisees themselves called jesus unlettered and ordinary? or did i just imagine that one :twisted:

LOL...I assumed nothing. You said you were Christian. Your views are very conservative chirstian. There was nothing to assume. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, George W. kinda folks

So? are you saying Christ wasn't of royal blood? The pharisees had a loaylty to Herod. That is a given. Christ was of the line of David. King David. Which meant he was a threat to Herod and his rule. Chirst was the first born son of the first born son and on and on. He was the rightful ruler of Isreal soo he was a threat to Herod, the romans and the pharisees. So, yes, they would do and say anything to try to discredit him. They tried many times to discredit him publicly...never worked...thats one reason they conspired with romans to have him arrested. Get the rightful heir out of the way and keep things the way they are.

Look, we are thread jacking. If you want to continue this my yahoo is Heretic_skream. But, I'm sure there is more than one person here who would love to join this discussion...I just don't know where it would go...literature, general, or whining.

raven_of_mourning · 05-13-2004, 09:34 PM

i never said i was christian, simply that i had studied the bible, i do and say too many things that go against the bible to claim that

Also yes jesus was of royal blood i didnt say he was but he was son of a carpenter and of a poor family (shown by the offering the gave after his birth which was set in place for those of poor standing) which therefore making him common and he never went to any of the rabinical (sp?) schools making him unlettered...
but you are right, this is thread jacking and i for my part apologize to anyone whom it may concern for it, personally i dont wish to continue it since i see no real future or resolving of it but i enjoyed it for what it was.

Loy · 05-13-2004, 11:09 PM

....break on this thread.....

I've had to leave town for a couple days, so I haven't been on the 'puter. And as much fun as it is reading what's come after my smart-assed remark, I feel like I do need to clarify my position on a few things.

Marriage-Do I think it's wrong? Not neccesarilly. I just have a problem with how this culture deals with the concept of "love". Love, in my opinion, is a mutual experience that grows within the people involved in this feeling (be they lovers, family members, friends, whatever). However, whenever couples say "I love you", most of the time they just mean "I wanna fuck you until I'm bored with you". And it's this same mindframe of "love" a lot of people have when they get married. Maybe I'm just a soured romantic, but I think this is wrong, and that's why I don't take the institution of marriage very seriously. I have no qualms with people marrying whoever they want, I just automatically question the validity of their reasons. I don't mean to, but after seeing so many marriages go down the shitter, it's become second nature to me.

My other thing with marriage is this-why is it neccesary to have another institution validate, in their own way, your feelings for another person? This is an honest question, and I'm asking it to see how others feel about it.

The military-Toast, you're right. I've never served in the military. I absolutely refuse to. And, before you pull out the "coward" card (which, I'm assuming is going to come up next)...well, I'll just give you a shortened history.

I come from a military family. My father was a navy seal. I grew up in military towns. I've known many people who've joined up (some of whom I'm still really good friends with). I have more than enough experience with the effects of the military on the people who join up, the towns the bases are on, and the mindsets of the towns' populace. So, just because I won't join up should not preclude my ability or reasoning to question it.

And what exactly are those problems with it?

Well, since I'm trying to keep within the topic, I'll just say that you can e-mail me, and we can discuss this topic at length. I mean, if my servicemen friends can deal with me calling them "tools for hegenomy", I'm sure you can do the same.

The church-I have little bit more experience with this one, since I was in seminary to become a priest (Roman Catholic, for those who are curious). I have no qualms with people seeking out an understanding of spirituality, nor do I have a problem with people who try to help others in that quest...I'm a big fan of spirituality. I'm also a big fan of theology. My problems with the church (and this is about all churches, not just the christian one) is that it requires unquestioning belief.

Again, we could discuss this at length if you'd like (and I really hope we do), but at another time.

And to the person who made mention of priests ****** little boys-honey, it ain't just priests who've been ****** little boys. It also hasn't been just little boys. Humankinds history has been filled with all kinds of stories of rapes of all kind, done by all kinds of people. Many of whom aren't exactly leading a life of celibacy (unless you can explain how, for example, the Marquis De Sade was celibate).

I hope this clears up a few things.

Now, back to the bitch-smacking.

Loy · 05-14-2004, 12:44 AM

Oh, and before I forget, I don't really consider marriage, church, and the military as the three worst aspects of this society. Those would be Sparxx Beer, SUV's, and Gallagher.

raven_of_mourning · 05-14-2004, 05:26 AM

LOY.... that's 4

raven_of_mourning · 05-14-2004, 09:57 AM

oops sorry loy thought there was comma between sparxx and beer my bad.

ghostposts · 05-14-2004, 02:15 PM

That website is an abomination.

I'm just glad to know that somewhere out there in bigotland there are a few brave souls who presume to speak for the Creator. :x
Now, if they could just get the message right...

Sick. That's all. I guess they have nothing better to do with their lives than to promote hatred and ignorance. If they would take some of that time, money and energy and put it into something positive, Maybe I would be more impressed.

I have a better website...

http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar/

comatoast · 05-14-2004, 04:32 PM

Sigh...carpenter was a mistranslation...but again...deaf ears.

Davena · 05-14-2004, 05:38 PM

mistranslation? really?? what was it supposed to be and why have i not heard about this before???? I WANT ANSWERS!!!!!!! kidding.

anyways, on the subject of gay marriages: FUCK THE BIBLE. the bible does not run the world. it is not world-wide law, it is not even american law. but still, people swear by it. hell, the gov't practically swears by it. and i am definitely not trying to offend anyone here, but honestly people. where is the separation between church and state?? cuz i sure as hell don't see one. and there should be one. religion is one thing, but when you let some small, religious book (written by humans i must add, therefore it is full of errors) interfere with someone's given rights, then i have a problem. there is nothing wrong with gay people marrying each other. if they love each other enough and want to commit the rest of their lives to each other, they damn well better be able to. who cares about their sexual preference. as long as they are happy, right? isn't that what the gov't is trying to do? make everyone happy?? Bush leads our country by the bible, and it's wrong. not all of us follow the bible. a little off topic, but anyways....

and it's stupid chritian fuckards who damn all other religions and think that everyone must live by the bible that annoy me. some think that just because their religion is different that they are "evil" and "damnned to hell." i can't stand it when people say that because someone loves another of the same sex that they should be sent to hell instantly and aren't worthy to live. yes, people, this kind of thing has happened to people i know, on several occasions. i just hate it when people think that they are right and that everyone else is wrong. because someone is homosexual does not automatically send them to hell. NOT EVERYONE IS CHRISTIAN!!! GET OVER IT!!!!!

well, i feel much better.

Morpheus_Noctifer · 05-14-2004, 06:19 PM

Dav, the word translated as carpenter means "craftsman" in the sense of a mason, stoneworker, etc. It also denotes that Joseph was pretty much a master of his craft, if I remember correctly. I don't have my Oxford Greek - English Lexicon handy (in the office), so I'm flying from memory. There are several mistranslations in the Bible, and a few words were even given new meanings.

Panther · 05-14-2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus_Noctifer

There are several mistranslations in the Bible, and a few words were even given new meanings.

Yes, there are. And this is what makes teh debate even hotter, the fact that a book written hundreds of years ago in a nother language says you can't love someone who's the smae gender as you, and if you do, you go to hell.

That is the extent of the arguement against gay marriage. The heart of the issue is, it scares some people, and it makes them uncomforatble, so instead of adapting and allowign it, they want to swuish it. Story of the human race, let's move on.

As for gay marriage, if I want to marry a woman who I absoloutly love int eh future, nothing is goign to stop me from finding a way. Simple as that.

WolfMoon · 05-14-2004, 06:52 PM

*And now for something completely different*

Does your Jesus hang low,

Does He wobble to and fro,

Can you tie Him in a knot,

Can you tie Him in a bow,

Can you throw Him over your shoulder

Like a continental soldier,

Does your Jesus hang low

Morpheus_Noctifer · 05-14-2004, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

*And now for something completely different*

Does your Jesus hang low,

Does He wobble to and fro,

Can you tie Him in a knot,

Can you tie Him in a bow,

Can you throw Him over your shoulder

Like a continental soldier,

Does your Jesus hang low

No, but my devil's horny.

Nice little song parody :wink:

evelynne · 05-14-2004, 07:13 PM

Xnguela - I don't live in America but can I come to your house and join the rally anyway? Man, not only was that website full of bigoted rubbish, they couldn't even be bothered setting it out properly. Do they believe they're going to convert people with dot points? The layout is almost as disgusting as the attitude.

raven_of_mourning · 05-14-2004, 09:08 PM

but yes gay marriages should be allowed full benefits as hederosexual (sp?) marriages. a government that is based on the theory that all men are created equal should not be allowed to give and take benefits as they see fit.