Cap and Trade

[Still Jack]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

Well I was at a valero gas station this morning, and while I was pumping gas they had a big ass sign on the pump saying that due to the cap and trade bill we would probably end up having to pay 77 cents to a dollar more per gallon.

F.U.C.K. Y.O.U. 77cents per gallon more???? I pay, 1.08€ for a litre, which is about a quarter of your gallon just for the info. Do you see me bitching?????

[Despanan]

Dude, you live in Europe, where driving is a luxury. Unless you're a New Yorker, Driving is a necessity in the states.

But this doesn't help her argument. Jin still needs cancerfire.

[Still Jack]

Driving is a necessity? A mate of mine from Memphis drove round the corner from his flat to get to the 7/11. It was a 30 second drive, I mean, come on, he could have walked...

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

F.U.C.K. Y.O.U. 77cents per gallon more???? I pay, 1.08€ for a litre, which is about a quarter of your gallon just for the info. Do you see me bitching?????

I was going to say that, it's around £1.06 a litre here I think. Which is pretty much £4 per US gallon.

That's about $6.57 per US gallon.

Places are more spread out in the US, but not everywhere is easily accessible by public transport here either.

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Alan

That's fucking stupid. I think you're lying to me, because you just went from claiming 15% increase in income tax to over 30% increase in sales tax.

I'm going to take a picture of it tomorrow and post it. I guess gasoline adds a different issue.

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

Driving is a necessity? A mate of mine from Memphis drove round the corner from his flat to get to the 7/11. It was a 30 second drive, I mean, come on, he could have walked...

seriously anyone can probably "walk" to a gas station. I have to drive an hour to and from, mon- fri. From cedar hill to Dallas. That's about $35 or more (depending on if I have other places to go to)...dollars of gas a week... add 77 cents more per gallon and I'm gonna be more broke then I already am.

[Duane]

Oh, I guess that means you'll have to give up your free time on here in order to get another job.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Duane

Oh, I guess that means you'll have to give up your free time on here in order to get another job.

What a tragedy.

Originally Posted by Still Jack

Driving is a necessity? A mate of mine from Memphis drove round the corner from his flat to get to the 7/11. It was a 30 second drive, I mean, come on, he could have walked...

So because your friend is super lazy and likes to waste gas, our country's massive size, commuter-based economy, and overall lack of viable public transportation systems suddenly doesn't matter?

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Duane

Oh, I guess that means you'll have to give up your free time on here in order to get another job.

For your matter of concern, I've already been looking into getting a second job, but no one is hiring. I'm sure you know how hard it is to get a job right now. Either way it would require even more driving.

[Still Jack]

You have greyhounds and shit don't you? Plus considering your speed limits are almost walking pace, it doesn't matter that much....

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

You have greyhounds and shit don't you? Plus considering your speed limits are almost walking pace, it doesn't matter that much....

OH MY GOSH....seriously??? A greyhound would be used if I wanted to go to fucking Oklahoma for about $100 bucks. We have dart in Dallas, but it doesn't go from Cedar Hill to my work place...The nearest dart is about 30 minutes from my house...that would require me to drive 30 minutes away...seriously you have no idea what it's like here Jack.


I drive on this every day dude...its the only fucking way.

[Despanan]

Greyhounds? Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Greyhounds are mainly used for travel BETWEEN cities, as in, I need to get from Frankfort Ky, to Cincinnati Oh and for whatever reason I can't take a car. Not to mention that when you factor in the amount of work missed due to trip length they can actually cost more than planes in the long run. You don't take Greyhounds to work.

Similarly, if you live inside a major city, buses are an option (it varies from city to city) but often time bus transit is shitty, slow, and underfunded, and good luck if you work somewhere a little ways away from downtown. For instance, Kontan worked a job in an industrial park. Nothing too far, just a fifteen minute drive for someone with a car, but since he took the bus he had to devote an hour and a fifteen minutes just getting there. Not to mention a vast majority people these days don't live in cities, they live in suburbs near the cities and use their cars to commute.

You can't even begin to imagine how freaking huge and sprawling the United States is, I mean you live in Luxembourg right? the whole country is only 998 square miles. When I thru-hiked the AT I walked 2176.5 miles, and I didn't even come close to walking the entire east coast of the United States.

[CptSternn]

It depends on where you live in America. I posted this in another thread, but here it is again -

http://www.walkscore.com/

Every city in America ranked by how walkable things are. Put in an address, find out how walkable things are from that address.

You do not need a car everywhere in America. If you choose to live in an area that is sprawled out and a car is required, you do that by choice. Everyone is free to move about the country.

[Still Jack]

Ah, I was of the impression that Greyhounds were morel like a bus service that did in between as well as routes through cities.
Also, Luxembourg is proper crap size wise. for me It's half an hour to the border in the north and south and 15 mins to the west and east. Then again our speed limit is 80 mph. But it's not enforced, so I generally drive around 105 - 110 mph. You get too used to living in a country that is the size of a postage stamp.

[korinna5555]

The WalkScore address for my current address is 0/100. No joke.
If I COULD walk places where I live now, I would.

Now, when I move, I will probably only be using my car to drive to school (two days a week). The area where I'm looking at apartments has a score of 92/100.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

If you choose to live in an area that is sprawled out and a car is required, you do that by choice. Everyone is free to move about the country.

wait...aren't you super fucking liberal? This has to be one of the most conservative viewpoints I've ever heard you voice. An attitude like that is on par with: "it's okay for employers to exploit their workers because the workers are there by choice, and are free to get another job".

While it is possible to get around without a car, the US is not a country which is set up for walkers. It never was, it's too big and things are too spread out, and our public transit systems are , with a few notable exceptions, laughable.

[Alan]

Everyone else seems to hit and miss in this thread. Desp, Raptos, and Korinna are the only ones right.

[Raptor]

I didn't understand Despanan's "you live in Europe" comment in response to petrol costing more here. Is that supposed to mean that we deserve higher prices because driving is less essential? Our public transport isn't cheap either.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Despanan

wait...aren't you super fucking liberal? This has to be one of the most conservative viewpoints I've ever heard you voice. An attitude like that is on par with: "it's okay for employers to exploit their workers because the workers are there by choice, and are free to get another job".

While it is possible to get around without a car, the US is not a country which is set up for walkers. It never was, it's too big and things are too spread out, and our public transit systems are , with a few notable exceptions, laughable.

I lived in like 16 different states over the course of 16 years. I left home when I was 15 and went out on my own. If I had an issue with getting around somewhere, I moved to a better location.

The whole argument that you can't just up and move is weak. Just because the average joe soap is too scared to moved out of his parents basement, or move to a big city where they don't know anyone doesn't negate the fact they could and would be successful.

I worked lots of crazy jobs when I first moved to places to pay the rent. Has to be done. There is no real excuse for not moving other than fear.

Some areas are not setup for walkers, that is true. So if you can't walk and driving is to expensive you need to move somewhere with a better walkscore.

[Still Jack]

Plus there's an invention called the bicycle. If you buy one with a decent gear setup, you can easily get up to 40 -50 kmh and steadily hold it.

[Alan]

You seriously are only saying that because you don't live in America. You already apologized; why the fuck are you trying to defend a stupid opinion you had given up?

[viscus]

As much as I would like to rail against America's comparatively low gas prices, a sudden $0.77 per gallon jump in would be counterproductive. It would be too much of a shock to most people's lifestyles. What should be done is a gradual increase in tax, let's say $0.03 per gallon per month. Eventually, there would be a nice cushion to protect consumers for sudden jumps in oil prices, and there would be plenty of revenue for mass transit improvements.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I didn't understand Despanan's "you live in Europe" comment in response to petrol costing more here. Is that supposed to mean that we deserve higher prices because driving is less essential? Our public transport isn't cheap either.

Dude, your gas prices are higher Because your government taxes it more because auto travel is not as absolutely necessary to your economic structure as it is in the United States:

Originally Posted by about.com

Make no mistake: the price of the raw gas is about the same as the U.S., but Europe taxes gasoline at a higher rate. At the moment, taxes in France make up about 70 percent of the pump price. For comparison, the U.S. federal gasoline tax of of 2005 was 18.4 cents per gallon, with each State adding between 10 and 33 cents of tax, according to Wikipedia. That makes the maximum gasoline tax rate 17% in the U.S.

also:

Originally Posted by Captsternn

I worked lots of crazy jobs when I first moved to places to pay the rent. Has to be done. There is no real excuse for not moving other than fear.

Some areas are not setup for walkers, that is true. So if you can't walk and driving is to expensive you need to move somewhere with a better walkscore.

With all due respect, that's complete fucking bullshit Sterrn. Fear is the only reason not to move? How about a career that is tied to a regional area? what about friends and family? What about culture?

No I suppose all those people who maintain the family farm are just fucking pussies who should suck it up and work at a burger king in NYC so that a website can give them a better number.

and while we're whipping around our walking-related E-peens, need I remind you that I have already walked further in one year than most of you will in your entire lives? I've walked the majority of the east coast of the United States for chrissakes. If anyone here can be considered an expert on America's walkability, I think that would be me.

Originally Posted by Still Jack

Plus there's an invention called the bicycle. If you buy one with a decent gear setup, you can easily get up to 40 -50 kmh and steadily hold it.

Enjoy being killed crossing a highway.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Despanan

No I suppose all those people who maintain the family farm are just fucking pussies who should suck it up and work at a burger king in NYC so that a website can give them a better number.

I have a family - wife and kid. We move when need be. If you have a 'career' as you say, then you shouldn't have to worry about the price of gas. Per the family/culture argument, if living in the middle of nowhere and having to drive is the culture you want to keep, then again, suck it up and pay for petrol.

None of those arguments hold water mate. My family just moved across the country here for a change. When I lived in America I did the same. If thats the excuse you want to use, fine, but do realise many people with 'careers' and families in America and around the world move everyday without issue.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Dude, your gas prices are higher Because your government taxes it more because auto travel is not as absolutely necessary to your economic structure as it is in the United States

Yeah and that leaves drivers here pissed off.