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Old 02-28-2012, 10:03 PM   #26
AshleyO
 
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Oh this is gonna be good.

Where's my popcorn?!
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:04 PM   #27
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Nah, man. I'm feeling shitty, so I'm going to bed. Tag team?
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:07 PM   #28
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Actually, fuck that. The right thing to do is to fucking spit on them.
I'm no good at spitting, can't I just kick them in the balls and stop them from breeding?
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:14 PM   #29
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So, I'm not really tracking what, exactly, you're trying to express. Are you saying that you're too much of a pussy, or that you're too fucking stupid to talk about this? Please elaborate.
I'm not sure what you are trying to express. I just hear you dictating what the proper response to insulting beliefs.

I'm hearing you calling me a pussy for being tolerant. I want to hear what the words of those I disagree with. I want to examine the structures of their belief. Most people claim some level of logic to their values. I wish to examine it, even from my enemies. That is not being a pussy.

Oh yes and you also called me privileged why is that? Because of how I type? My avatar? Because of my decision to listen to hateful words and expose myself to toxic ideology to learn how and why? Perhaps you mean naive. Perhaps you imply that I don't know what racism is really like or something? Or perhaps I'm not around "real" racists? Hrm. Eitherway it is quite amusing! Please elaborate.

So no I don't beat up nazi skinheads when I see them at shows. Someone has to be struck for me to consider it that kind of situation. No I don't hunt for racism like some avenger. No I don't spit on people when they say some racist bullshit to my face. That does not equal standing idly by and letting racism flourish.

I know where the line is. I know what to do when that line is crossed in reality, not some hypothetical horseshit.

There is a big difference between talk and action. Some online flexing is nothing. A bunch of shitty swastika patches does not equal being spit on by me. Wave the confederate flag all you want but if fists start flying it is on. You have your way I have mine. Notice how I'm trying to respect you even though you did not respect me? I’m just a newb/noob who cares right?
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:52 PM   #30
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Unquestioning respect is not necessarily the high ground.
You should understand racism. But tolerating it? That's just stupid.
I really believe that's what bothers Versus, even as he himself is white. You are giving racism too much leeway, because of the liberal idea that understanding means tolerance, that critical thinking is less important than generalized acceptance.

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I love it when white people tell people of colour what is an appropriate response to oppression.
For what it's worth, I think Versus is right.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:07 AM   #31
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Unquestioning respect is not necessarily the high ground.
You should understand racism. But tolerating it? That's just stupid.
I really believe that's what bothers Versus, even as he himself is white. You are giving racism too much leeway, because of the liberal idea that understanding means tolerance, that critical thinking is less important than generalized acceptance.


For what it's worth, I think Versus is right.
Versus is half black, actually. Although I was probably being presumptuous about FoF being white.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:12 AM   #32
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PP, you seem to think it's a choice between tolerating things you find morally and intellectually repugnant, or stamping your feet and spitting at the person in question like a five year old. There ARE other options. Dialogue is important, but you seem be arguing that it's somehow bad form to call people out for saying downright objectionable shit.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:23 AM   #33
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I'm not sure what you are trying to express. I just hear you dictating what the proper response to insulting beliefs.
Are you fucking kidding me? You don't need to be intollerant because it's offensive, but because it's fucking wrong! When you see somebody who is obviously not giving consent for sex, do you mind your own business and let a **** happen or do just fucking say something? Just like sexual assault, the reason why it's so fucking pervasive is because it's allowed to happen by limp dick pussies like you. By tolerating racism in any form, be it phyisical harm or just harsh words, you allow it to prevail and fester throughout every single fucking institution and aspect of society. Just because it doesn't "hurt" somebody like you think doesn't mean that it isn't fundamentally harmful and lead to something else. I mean, Jesus. Do you just let the dog shit on the floor, or do you show him that it's completly unacceptable?

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I'm hearing you calling me a pussy for being tolerant. I want to hear what the words of those I disagree with. I want to examine the structures of their belief. Most people claim some level of logic to their values. I wish to examine it, even from my enemies. That is not being a pussy.
There is no great discourse to discover. You already know that racism is false. There is nothing to gain from allowing bigots to play at logic or discussion except a tolerance for racism. A TOLERANCE for RACISM.

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Oh yes and you also called me privileged why is that? Because of how I type? My avatar? Because of my decision to listen to hateful words and expose myself to toxic ideology to learn how and why? Perhaps you mean naive. Perhaps you imply that I don't know what racism is really like or something? Or perhaps I'm not around "real" racists? Hrm. Eitherway it is quite amusing! Please elaborate.
You are privileged because you have the option to tolerate and ignore racism, you stupid mother fucker.

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So no I don't beat up nazi skinheads when I see them at shows. Someone has to be struck for me to consider it that kind of situation. No I don't hunt for racism like some avenger. No I don't spit on people when they say some racist bullshit to my face. That does not equal standing idly by and letting racism flourish.

I know where the line is. I know what to do when that line is crossed in reality, not some hypothetical horseshit.

There is a big difference between talk and action. Some online flexing is nothing. A bunch of shitty swastika patches does not equal being spit on by me. Wave the confederate flag all you want but if fists start flying it is on. You have your way I have mine. Notice how I'm trying to respect you even though you did not respect me? I’m just a newb/noob who cares right?
The most offensive thing about you is that you think racism that isn't violence is benign. Die in a fire.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:02 AM   #34
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Even if some folk do have racist ideas (no matter what side): That's their problem.
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I don't care enough to 'change them' or 'show them the way'.
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Blatant injustice is getting attacked because of who you are. Injustice is getting targeted because of where you're from or what you look like. Someone saying some dumb shit is just talk.
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I am not going to get riled up over some bullshit like that.
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All while laughing at their silly attempts at ego boosting through warped group idealogy.
You literally just said that racism doesn't bother you of it doesn't amount to physical violence.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:05 PM   #35
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Yeah I'm like so late on this topic but...
Just putting this out there. The reason why I posted the other thread last year (I think it was last year) was out of pure curiosity. I myself am Dominican and have received alot of bullshit from my family and friends on me being a goth. My parents started to think that I hated the color of my skin and that I hated my background and that I wanted to be 'white'. Well its not true it may have seemed that way because already I was raised in a 'white community' and that was some what part of by personality(you cant blame me). So back to the point, it was all curiosity, I just wanted to see if another person of another race had the same treatment as I did. Yes I could have chosen another race but I wanted to find out how specifically how 'black goths' are 'seen' as. Of course there's tons of racist out there who are bunch of assholes and can't get the idea of equality, but I'm not one. In Fact I feel extremely proud to see a non'white' goth because it's proof that anyone can be what the hell they want to be and not be stuck in this group because of their skin color or background. My parents and classmates always ask me 'why cant you be more Dominican?' and my response is "what is a Dominican?' And as for me blaming anyone, I wasn't blaming anyone! people kept making these accusations that I am a racist, Well to bad you didn't my point. Those people who called me a racist are just as indifferent as those who say 'you cant be goth if your not white', why call me a racist if I fall into the same group as all the other non white goths.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:56 PM   #36
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Where you been? Missed ya.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:06 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by FistsofFury View Post
I'm not sure what you are trying to express. I just hear you dictating what the proper response to insulting beliefs.
Yeah. I believe the people on the receiving end of discrimination do get to decide the response.

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I'm hearing you calling me a pussy for being tolerant.
You can’t tolerate intolerance.
Quote:
I want to hear what the words of those I disagree with. I want to examine the structures of their belief. Most people claim some level of logic to their values. I wish to examine it, even from my enemies. That is not being a pussy.
Why? Racism is basically illogical, why dignify the beliefs by allowing them your brain space? Fair enough if you’re doing that Socratic argument thing, but you cannot change wilful misunderstanding by giving your understanding.

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Oh yes and you also called me privileged why is that? Because of how I type? My avatar?
Because you get the option to ignore this shit, minimise it or treat it as some intellectual exercise.
Quote:
I know where the line is. I know what to do when that line is crossed in reality, not some hypothetical horseshit.
As opposed to others who would draw the line somewhere else? The line is crossed well before it gets to violence.

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There is a big difference between talk and action. Some online flexing is nothing. A bunch of shitty swastika patches does not equal being spit on by me. Wave the confederate flag all you want but if fists start flying it is on. You have your way I have mine. Notice how I'm trying to respect you even though you did not respect me? I’m just a newb/noob who cares right?
Talk and belief precedes and is used to justify action. When someone is being racist and you appear to accept it or give them a platform to talk about it, you are letting them believe it’s an ok attitude and you help create a supportive culture for hate.
Just like how you don’t have to **** to contribute to **** culture.

I’ll admit I’ve had the privilege of not knowing how racist some of my friends were, and I tried to respectfully change their minds on the unrelated but equally elitist beliefs they did openly express... and take it from me, it doesn’t work. It’s not worth your time. Just call racists out or boot them like I did.


Oh yeah, and as for the linked blog? The chick is like 20, and apparently recognises neither trolling nor sarcasm.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:13 AM   #38
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We can sum this up in saying that it's a very privileged idea that there is such a thing as idle talk.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:19 PM   #39
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I just noticed you motherfuckers never responded to my awesome summation of the topic.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:25 PM   #40
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Are you somewhat bored? I don't think I have ever seen you practicing the dark art of necromancy before.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:30 PM   #41
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A little. But they referenced this thread on the OWS one and I read it again.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:34 PM   #42
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I do not disagree, Alan.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #43
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I don't see how thinking idle racism isn't harmless isn't a privileged thought. Unless that's what Alan actually meant.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:02 PM   #44
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Double negatives confuse me, dude.

He means to say that the existence of idle racism (as opposed to just racism) is a privileged idea.
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