Latest from the Gaza Strip - Family Killed in Raid

[Megansmom]

Oops sorry to forget to answer your question. What are my prejudices?.
Gangster wanna bes. I can not for the life of me like or find any reason why a middle class white boy wants to act like they are ghetto raised. Nor can I like or respect any person that lets others tell them they are not worth anything nor do I like people who are too lazy to do anything about their lives and complain about it while they draw a welfare check, courtesy of mine and every hard working American who pays taxes,for their 6 babies by different fathers none of whom pay child support or
are in jail . This takes away the money from those who truly need it
Homeless people who are perfectly able to get a job and take care of themselves but rather live on the streets and then bitch about all the free handouts aren't enough. then they put out the signs saying will work for food but they really want a beer and they throw the food you give them back in your face. What's wrong with telling the truth like hey I just want enough money to get my next fix?
Drug addicts and alcoholics I try to feel mercy for them, but I can't. grew up around them and I have a sister that is an addict but I feel anger and hatred towards them. They don't care anything for themselves and they could care less about how they hurt others. They clean up for awhile and then go right back to the same old stupid crap even knowing that they'll destroy everything they have worked for and knowing that they are what they are and they should stay away from the crap.
Parents who put their kids on drugs because they don't have time for them. That drives me up the wall so bad I just want to yell at them and say hey asshole spend some time with them and see what a difference it makes. Then they have the balls to wonder why their darling is cutting themselves, trying to commit suicide , or going on killing sprees.Then they have to blame the system , games they are play (which they wouldn't have been playing had the parents been doing their jobs)the second amendment, or their music and hairstyle.
Tomatoes they are so slimy they feel like snot. Just thinking about them gags me. And I'm confused are they a fruit or vegetables.
I have many prejudices and I am struggling to deal with some of them . Some of them I will never get over because I don't want to but others maybe I will. I might could get over the underwear showing if they wore nice underwear and had cute asses or get to watch a few more people fall fall and bust their chops because of it.

[ArtificialOne]

You try and say I'm calling you anti Semitic.. really where was that in any of my posts... Or for that matter any insinuation of that? Nice try. Yeah I like the book in question.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841
But, since I mentioned that one, your mind will be closed to others I'd mention that fall on the opposite perspective of said book. Because that's what you do, and you proved my point. You'll latch onto something like that and make up me calling you an antisemite to try and demonize me to no end. And that's not a tactic? Like chasing your own tail, because it's terribly fun to watch.


Propaganda... So you're telling me that the Palestinian groups such as Hamas, PLA and Hezbollah issue fact from gods mouth and are completely righteous? Yet, you'll believe anyone who espouses a conspiracy theory of how evil the US is? Then you'll come back.. "no no I didn't say that.." or "yeah the US's very evil.." yadda yadda.. It's laughable how arrogant some of you are.. I mean have your reread some of the stuff you say? "I get my news from foreign media outlets like Al jazeera and Al Arabia... <nose in the air>" Your point? I watch that stuff too.. You don't see any bias in that reporting as well? Because I question all media, not just fall for it like some big'ol fish hook with a worm on it.

As far as being knowledgeable in the affairs of the middle meast.. let me see a degree or a passport or a visa or something.. Because on here, it's a level playing ground and your "too good for you" crap don't work on me.

It's also funny.. you have several people here saying "Look! Look! Big bad America is selling weapons to an ally!!! Oh Look! Look! Isn't that baaaaaaaddddd!!!!" Exactly what's wrong with America having an ally? At least they're friendly with us, not unlike some wonderful EU countries that are supposedly are allies yet do underhanded deals under embargoes with countries known to be our enemies or not friendly in the least. How about for fairness sakes you list all the weapons of manufacture that the Palestinians and Hezbollah in Lebanon are using.. Oh wait.. because your dawning your red cap and getting ready for a march. Yeah, excuse the hell out of me for standing for what I believe in and not letting some twats try to browbeat my opinions because I won't follow some crazy ideology of disguised hatred and misplaced trust. Just to add, I'm sure someone.. mainly stern will, chime in with "But they're killing innocent kids and pregnant women and oh oh! disabled people!". Yeah, well what about all the weapons the Chinese have sold to Darfur and the Russians have sold to numerous other countries in Africa and abroad to commit genocide. They won't dare mention that, because it dances to close to their ideology for their own good. Isreal's demonized terribly by the left and sympathisers of radical groups because it's another indirect route to gain followers and propaganda for anti democratic and pro communist or other groups that despise people having a choice or a voice in their govt. Just ask them or yourself. What do all those groups stand for? What group do you stand for.? I know, I finally beat it out of stern that he was a huge castro fan. It's also funny that they don;t like to talk about history much.. Wonder why that is? Skeletons in the closets of their beliefs? It's like buying a wrecked car, someone fixed it all up to look pretty, it might be terribly unsafe, the previous owner sells it to you as a sparkling gem, but underneath it's a deathtrap. Would you buy it if you knew it's history? That's why I don't buy it. Politics is like a chess game. You always try to adapt new stratgies and discard ones that have bad history in failure. People like sterna nd several others on this board love to prostilize the faith of their religion, but never ever talk about the horrible failures in the past. They also apparently don't know how to use a dictionary since they try and use every name in the book and pin it on me.. let's see.. Fascist, nazi, neo-con, hater, racist.. etc etc.. Common tactic..

[ArtificialOne]

Ok, I'd wrote some really good stuff afterwards while trying to edit due to a error in the program.. etc.. stupid comps.. don't complain about spelling you a** holes!

[KontanKarite]

This spelling is CRAP!!!

[ArtificialOne]

Arhggg!! Blasted!!! Foiled again!!!

[Megansmom]

I love the Desert Eagle, I thought they were made in Brazil .My but I do need to find out where my guns are made, I just know a lot of them are not made it America anymore.
You know , I'd like to have one of those guns that bend. That way the next time I have to shoot at an intruder I don't have to leave my room. I probably wouldn't miss then. And I would be better armed than the intruder.
Isn't that what arming a military is about being better prepared ? Does it matter where the guns come from? They all get them and they all shoot them and to blame one country for arming another is all moot .
They would find away to wage war even if it was catapults and rocks. Someone would send them the wood to build it.

[KontanKarite]

Nah, that's a poor excuse, Megansmom. Look at it this way. Hey, people commit crimes on the streets every day. They want to. So since they want to, I should obviously give my guns to criminals because it doesn't matter where they get the weapons. They'd do the crime with one anyway. Again, I would say that the US would be better off giving humanitarian aid to the VICTIMS of this conflict. I think in light of that, they'd save a lot of face.

Sure, Israel and Palistine could get weapons, terrible, destructive weapons. But they don't have to get them from the USA or Iran. WE, as Americans, should be better than that. Shouldn't the US try to champion themselves as willing peace keepers? The richest nation in the world, being more willing to give aid to those less fortunate.

It's not that we should pick a side in a war that has nothing to do with us, it's that being a third party should send aid for a better cause. Not a victory to either side, but a fair and just end to a conflict that's been going on for thousands of years. Two wrongs don't make a right. But we can all choose to be a catalyst for destruction or a catalyst for peace. That, is OUR choice to make though.

[insolitus_noir]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

But, since I mentioned that one, your mind will be closed to others I'd mention that fall on the opposite perspective of said book. Because that's what you do, and you proved my point. You'll latch onto something like that and make up me calling you an antisemite to try and demonize me to no end. And that's not a tactic? Like chasing your own tail, because it's terribly fun to watch.

That's what I do? Have you even read any of my posts? You assume a lot. If you have resources you think are worth reading, share it. There's no need to be petulant. Though comments like "it's terribly fun to watch" suggest you are not interested in a discussion. You've already made it clear that we are wrong, you are right, and your tone implies you think anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint is an idiot.

And I didn't say you were calling anyone an antisemite. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I was addressing points made by Megansmom.

I did criticize you, however, for employing the very tactics you claim to decry in others in this board. Comments like

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

As far as being knowledgeable in the affairs of the middle meast.. let me see a degree or a passport or a visa or something.. Because on here, it's a level playing ground and your "too good for you" crap don't work on me.

come across as defensive and condescending. They are the very definition of ad hominems. Personally, I think different viewpoints are great. But I'm finding the discussion to be rather poisonous these days.

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

Propaganda... So you're telling me that the Palestinian groups such as Hamas, PLA and Hezbollah issue fact from gods mouth and are completely righteous? Yet, you'll believe anyone who espouses a conspiracy theory of how evil the US is? Then you'll come back.. "no no I didn't say that.." or "yeah the US's very evil.." yadda yadda.. It's laughable how arrogant some of you are.. I mean have your reread some of the stuff you say?

I never said that Hamas, PLA, and Hezbollah are righteous. I asked you to explain how the media, both mainstream and independent, serve as propaganda for these groups. In turn, I cited the many sources available to get news. And the foreign press includes the BBC, Agence France-Presse, Haretz, and many others that are not Al Jazeera. My point is that one needs to consider many different sources, because no single source is sufficient to sort out what is truth and what is politically expedient. And I stand by my view that the media favours your perspective and that anything that challenges that perspective is suppressed.

Oh, and I think Kontan has the right idea when he writes:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Two wrongs don't make a right. But we can all choose to be a catalyst for destruction or a catalyst for peace. That, is OUR choice to make though.

Well said, Kontan.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

I love the Desert Eagle, I thought they were made in Brazil .My but I do need to find out where my guns are made, I just know a lot of them are not made it America anymore.
You know , I'd like to have one of those guns that bend. That way the next time I have to shoot at an intruder I don't have to leave my room. I probably wouldn't miss then. And I would be better armed than the intruder.
Isn't that what arming a military is about being better prepared ? Does it matter where the guns come from? They all get them and they all shoot them and to blame one country for arming another is all moot .

My point was just that not all are made in the US. If you look for pictures of Israel's military, a large number of their soldiers are armed with M4's or M16's. So the US does play a big role in arming them.

The bending gun is the Corner Shot. It's made by a company that is part Israeli and part American.

Yes you should arm your own military well. But this is talking about arming other countries, which means you have to pick sides. And that leads to these points:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Sure, Israel and Palistine could get weapons, terrible, destructive weapons. But they don't have to get them from the USA or Iran. WE, as Americans, should be better than that. Shouldn't the US try to champion themselves as willing peace keepers? The richest nation in the world, being more willing to give aid to those less fortunate.

It's not that we should pick a side in a war that has nothing to do with us, it's that being a third party should send aid for a better cause. Not a victory to either side, but a fair and just end to a conflict that's been going on for thousands of years. Two wrongs don't make a right. But we can all choose to be a catalyst for destruction or a catalyst for peace. That, is OUR choice to make though.

Which I agree with.

[Drake Dun]

Whoa. It's probably for the best that I missed this conversation.

Maui was fucking awesome.

[insolitus_noir]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Whoa. It's probably for the best that I missed this conversation.

Maui was fucking awesome.

Ah, well. Welcome to the fray nonetheless. Maui's the only Hawaiian island I've been to and I agree: fucking awesome. Great snorkeling.

[KontanKarite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiTYvcms-Og

Now we have unity. No one can disagree that this song fucking rules.

[insolitus_noir]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiTYvcms-Og

Now we have unity. No one can disagree that this song fucking rules.

Amen, brother.

[Megansmom]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiTYvcms-Og

Now we have unity. No one can disagree that this song fucking rules.

Oh, my gosh I had forgotten how good they were . now I really feel friggin old I was going to play my cassette of S and B , but I don't own a cassette player I only own a cd player uggggggggg. It's so old it would probably frigging break any way. I've only had the cassette for oh crap 25 or so years.
Damn I'm old.

[KontanKarite]

S&B can unite the fucking world with their music. The more I listen to them, the more I fall in love.

You know, they just don't make music like that anymore. Not even the avantgarde modern deathrock comes close. Though it is still good in its respect.

[Mir]

No they can't. If they could have, they would have done so by now. After all, they have only been in the business for what? Nearly 40 years?

[KontanKarite]

It shut these people up. S&B. Great in small doses.

[Mir]

Clever social experiment, I must say. =P

[insolitus_noir]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

It shut these people up. S&B. Great in small doses.

Well, the quiet is admittedly nice...but on the other hand, even a debate that doesn't go anywhere has a modicum of entertainment value. Still, good show. I suppose you should be thanked for not threatening to flash your penalty flag?

[KontanKarite]

Mmm. you do have a point. I only ever mentioned it twice.


So I guess it's the word on the streets now.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

I'm kind of new here ,but I have been reading this thread and I am confused. Well not really confused , just wondering how some of you have made it this long in life.
Let me get say this in the kindest most respectful way I can. Some of you are nut jobs. I've read every thread and all have valid points and some text have been so twisted by others I wonder how the people get through the day and if they are this closed minded about everything except to their own points of view.

Wow, thats pretty condesending. Labeling us all crazy and stupid. Is that what makes it easier to dismiss the facts?

No offense, but I'm betting you an American who has never traveled outside of America, possibly the exception of Canada or Mexico on a week long holiday, but thats it. Also I suspect you have had absolutely no college level classes on the Middle East or the conflict (or any other European history for that matter), meaning you skipped college. I can also tell you make less than $50,000 a year.

You fall right into the average mis-informed American category, much like Artificial One. You blindly support the stuff you have been spoon fed by the American media, and think that questioning it somehow challenges your patriotism as well as your own religious beliefs.

Don't feel bad, your just one of many Americans who have been misled to the point they blindly follow right-wing rhetoric. It's based on fear mainly. Fear that those in charge might be wrong. Fear that if the other side is correct on any of those point then you actually might be supporting the wrong side of the argument, a fear that you might be on the wrong side of good and evil.

Thats where I'm guessing your headaches come from.

But on to you last post...

Palestine wants to be it's own country but yet it wants Israel to provide it with it's needs. What's wrong with that picture? Every other country in the world makes their own power, has more than 1 trading partner to get supplies in the country , and more than 1 border.

This right here shows you have no idea whats going on. Palestine doesn't want anything from Israel, except for them to give back the land they stole. Palestine can't trade as israel has cut them off from the outside world. Think tanks surrounding the country. They don't 'want' anything - just their land and in the meantime the ability to feed their people. Whenever israel has a problem with the Palestinian government, they cut off food and water to tens of thousands of people. You support that? If so, please feel free to find a quote in the Bible that supports that. As per my previous post - lets say bush didn't like what democrats in one state were doing - would you not take issue if bush surrounded the state with troops and starved the people there until the local state government collapsed and did what bush wanted? You support the killing, torture, and starving of innocent people to make a political statement?

It's my understanding that Egypt has built a wall to separate it's self from Palestine and they don't allow the Palestinian people in there country.It is their right to do so , but why doesn't the Palestinian government work a deal with Egypt to knock down the wall or open up some of it's border to get supplies in the country and buy electricity from them until they can figure how to make their own?

Again, this shows you really are not paying attention. This just happened a few weeks ago. To help the Palestinians after israel cut off food the Egyptians allowed them to cross the border and come through the wall to get food and water.

Is there some reason why Egypt won't help them could it be they don't recognize the government there either? Maybe , Maybe not . They claim they want to help them with peace talks with Israel but what about these other things. If they truly wanted to help they would take action and do something but I'm not getting the feeling they care either way.

Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Q'tar, and Kuwait all have puppet governments propped up by the US government. All have minority elected cadres of leaders that achieved power by using US supplied arms to kick out whatever government was in place prior to the US supply weapons to the current puppet governments. The same has happened in South America, but thats a different story.

People seem to forget that Egypt had original control of the Gaza Strip till Israel won it in there fight for liberation. (To the victor goes the spoils ) It has not been it's own country for at least oh 75 years. They didn't liberate them either nor did they see fit to make it part of Egypt then or to offer it's people there protection but surely some of the old infrastructure stands and could be made use of today.

Again, your history here is lacking. A more accurate depiction is that the brits came in after WW2 and said this land is ours and we are giving it to these people. That was 60 years ago, not 75. Also, much like the American Indians, the people there didn't understand what was going on. Some foriegn group comes in and claims all the land is theirs. They didn't think much of it until the army moved in and started kicking people out of their homes. The military is still there as ever since they moved out the indigenous people there has been war ever since.

Also 'to the victors go the spoils' - thats quite a statement coming from a Christian. Are you saying might makes right? If so then are you supporting terrorists attacking America? I mean, if they are able to take over, then you would support them if they won it fair and square? You wouldn't have a problem praying to a new god? You think the American Indians got what they deserved then?

People are also not taking into account that Palestine launched over 800 missiles into Israeli towns and over 200 suicide/ regular bombings last year alone . Forgive me , but if someone is bombing my country I'm giving back the same and doing whatever I can to stop it.

Again, your not paying attention. Missiles are launched because their country is under siege. They have troops killing civilians on a daily basis. It's not attacking, its retaliation. If the israelis didn't have troops and tanks running amok killing people, they wouldn't launch missiles. To merely focus on one side and act ignorant on the fact the israels kill 10x as many people, mostly civilians every year means you are actively ignoring the facts or have no idea of whats going on there.

One of the Governments job is to protect it's people as best as it can or be overthrown.
Isn't bombing you neighbor a stupid thing to do anyway especially when they have this much control over your country and a much better military?

So again, if say Russia takes over your town, you would back them because might makes right? Should smaller countries just give up when a larger country attacks because small countries according to your logic shouldn't fight back when they don't have a better military? Do you think hitler had the right idea then by invading small countries? I mean, Poland should have had a better army, and after being invade they should have just got behind hitler because he had a better army. Is that what your selling?

You might else well drop a bomb on your country yourself and leave the world a beautiful suicide note. It would cost a lot less and save a whole lot of time. Hello have we not heard of self preservation guys? A little butt kissing and a little hand shaking and meaning it might go a long ways toward that.

Thats what the French, Polish, and other European nations should have done during WW2 - just kissed hitlers butt, eh?

[CptSternn]

Give yourself a few years of not bombing said neighbor and see what happens. You might find yourself able to stand on your own two feet and a neighbor willing to leave you be.

I hate saying 'again' so many times, but seriously - there was a cease fire until just a couple of years ago when israel broke the cease fire and attacked the Palestinians FIRST.

What does it matter who's supplying Israel? What I want to know is who's supplying the Gaza Strip? If they are so poor , how come they have missiles to fire on Israel? And why do they keep encouraging these people to attack a country they cannot beat? Shouldn't they be helping them build and clean up the country not causing it to self destruct?

You seriously don't have a clue about this do you? The US gives the israels the tanks and bombs they use to kill innocent women and children. Your tax dollars go to pay for murder, abuse, and torture of innocent people. They are not allowed to vote, participate in government. The Palestinians have to carry papers with them at all time, less be arrested and imprisoned without trial. The israels have a shoot on site policy, which means they can kill whoever, whenever without any repercussions. If you so supportive of such measures, then why do you not support them in your own country? The atrocities that have been attributed to the nazis in WW2 are being carried out now against the Palestinians, yet the US supports these measures.

Israel gave them the land and country they wanted.

I can't begin to explain how many things are wrong with that statement.

Don't discount religious beginnings either. There's 3 religions teaching the same story about Abraham and Sarah only in different words.If you read the story and use any knowledge of human nature it is possible for a grudge to carry on for 3000 plus years.

Religion has NO place in politics. Who is right? Everyone thinks they are. If you cross the line and make religion the premise of a war, you are promising a lifetime of war - as neither side will admit their religion is wrong. Thats why you have to look at facts, and real statistics and leave religion out of the argument.

Just saying that could have a lot to do with how the Middle East sees things too and why they feel Israel shouldn't exist. Could you have a hatred for Jews that your not aware of? Have any of you asked yourself that question? I pretty much get that you hate Christians so It's not to far fetched me to believe that you hate Jews also.

Again, this is a pretty bold assumption. I don't hate anyone. I dislike human suffering. I find people that try and justify horrendous acts on religion appalling. The israelis are doing just that. Killing, torturing, engaging in genocide (their own words) - this I find attrocious. Using religion as a reason for such behaviour makes me ill. Its not anti-semitism. Any group that engages in such behaviour I also hold disdain for.

Same goes for so-called Christians. I have two words for you - Ted Haggard.

Oh and the un sanctions you need are on the un web site .They list all 16 sanctions and all the reprimands.(Iraq) Your web sites were just a little too 1 sided for me so I went to the source The Un. Your numbers were a little off on sanctions against Israel there's been a total of 101 but most of them are as one sided as you .Just thought you might want to know that.

The fact you know so little and accuse the UN of being one-side speaks volumes. You think the UN is now bias? That every country in the world is bias, except America and israel?

And to the person who thought Hussein was being logical when he was killing his people are you off your rockers? What is logical about mass murders and rapes? There is no excuse for it and I know of no religions that condone it.

Hah - please save this for the Iraq thread. Don't try and bring Iraq into this. More importantly, if the people there hated Saddam so much, then why are they fighting so hard to get their government back?

To make a long and short of it, Israel has the right to defend herself and Palestine and the rest of the middle east needs to just accept it and help Palestine needs to get rid of her terrorist organization of a government and put one in that'll be too busy taking care of the citizens needs that they won't be lobbing bombs at a country they can not nor will be able to in the near future defeat. They are there own country now start acting like one .

'Defend' - you really think that israel is 'defending' itself? You really need to sit down and watch some BBC or news from outside of America - find some of those BBC documentaries I listed. You obviously have no clue about whats happening if you think israel is just defending itself.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

My god stern, I need to know ...


Awesome post Megansmom, you pretty much sum up how I feel. Thing is, people like stern...

Yeah....... You are so well informed oh great one... You do know you are the epitome of arrogant, self centered and egotistical don't you?

I still don't see how you...

Can't wait to see how you...

I love your responses AO. You never focus on the argument, but always try and attack me the messenger, especially when you have nothing really to contribute and no retort to the stuff I say.

We have a saying in Ireland - play the ball, not the player.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Megansmom

Your right I should have called out the person who made the statement that made it appear they hate Christians , I just figured everyone would be smart enough not to take it personal or at least ask why I got that opinion .

This is a topic for another thread. What I am against (I don't 'hate' anything) is American Christians. Why? Because they are unlike Christians from any other country.

They believe they are somehow better than others. They preach one thing, then actively engage in the opposite behaviour. They preach war, death, and intolerance, yet don't understand why people are confused in their message.

But again, this is a topic for another thread.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Thats bullshit. I assume you mean Israel but its still wrong. Excluding the Uzi, I suppose the majority of weapons are American, with a large amount of their troops using Armalite varients (M16's and M4's). They do have other weapons though so you can't say all.

Desert Eagle - Ok so this might be an American design I think, but manufactured in Israel as one of the smaller calibre models and I believed is used as a sidearm.

MP5 PDW - submachine gun

IMI Galil - Ok so this one is pretty much gone due to the Armalites. Assualt rifle.

Tavor TAR-21 - Another assault rifle.

Negev - support weapon

The special forces also have access to the P226 (Sig Sauer), Glock models, the Jericho, the Uzi and more.

I don't know much about how the airforce or any armour they use, but I found the Merkava battle tank on google.

They do get a lot from the US though.
I don't know much about the Palestinians but they have a lot of different stuff I think, with a lot of AK's.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me here? AK's and AR's are all made in America. Pegasus arms, Colt, and a few other manufacturers make those guns mate - in America or in factories in Europe owned by American companies.

What exactly do you mean, the US made money from the Iraq war? I'm sure the cost of everything they've done outweighs any money made from arms dealing.

You might think that, but you would be wrong. See, its not that the US made money, its the companies mate. The US tax payer is out TRILLIONS. The small cadre of US companies with ties to the White House have made out like bandits. The people in the White House have all made personal fortunes as well.