Vegan / Vegetarian Goths

[honeythorn]

I absolutley DETEST hunting for the hell of it. I really hate foxhunting with a passion. Farmers say that the foxes kill their chickens? get better fencing dickheads!! People say they carry distemper? there is a vaccine against it!!! If they can't be arsed to immunise their dogs then that's their idiocy and their fault if the dog picks it up.

Over here they banned foxhunting, but there is one major loophole in the ban. If the hunters do what is known as a dry hunt, (using artificial scent and a bloke running a couple of miles in front to lay the trail) and a real fox happens to pop up along the way, then the fox will be killed because they cannot call off the dogs. These dogs have been bred and trained to do what they do ( also wrong in my opinion) and it is too far ingrained within the breed . They simply ignore all calls and horns and kill the fox as they have been bred and taught. So foxes are still dying brutally and far outnumbered.

Also, since the advent of synthetic fibres, we no longer need fur from animals, and thus we have another reason why foxhunting is cruel and unnessesary. You can't eat the meat, and you don't need the fur to survive a cold winter. It's just barbarism and bloodlust for pleasure.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

I didn't know about that. That is disgusting and cruel. And that is very wrong to train those dogs to do something like that. That's heart breaking in a way. I love foxes, they are beautiful creatures.

[honeythorn]

British Foxhunting has been going on for centuries sadly. The foxhound is an official kennel club breed. I went to the royal show with a friend ( horse show) and there was all kinds of support in favour of foxhunting and the country alliance. I almost chewed my lips off trying to stay silent, since most of the people there were ca supporters, and they simply will not be reasoned with.

There was a little demonstration, involving a huntmaster bringing his hounds into a little arena, and explaining to people that these dogs are not viscious ect, then all the children were allowed into the area to stroke the dogs ect. Basically they were trying to inform people that the dogs weren't inherently viscious rabid animals. Naturally they aren't around people. But if someone had put a fox in that arena it wouldn't have lasted two minutes.

I have no problem with the actual dogs or the breed, it's the purpose they are used for.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Yes, I agree. I mean I love dogs, but if they are used to do something like that, I must say I do not like that. But you're right, if this has been going on for centuries then people will not be reasoned with easily, or at all. Which makes me sad. It's cruel to the foxes and the dogs in a way.

[honeythorn]

One of their main arguments is " it's tradition " Killing something that has no chance whatsoever of defending itself is a tradition? Sick is what it is. >

Also, when a child ( oh yes, they bring up their children to appreciate and participate in the bloodshed) partakes of their first hunt, they actually stiil do the ritual of smearing the foxes blood on the childs cheek/face. Like some kind of initiation into the hunt. Sick.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

That is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard. Tradition my ass. They need a new tradition that celebrates the creatures on earth, not kill them.

[korinna5555]

i am being more careful about what i eat, and im back to being a vegetarian...im almost a vegan, but i LOOOOVE these cookies that have a milk derivative in them. so i dont count as vegan

[korinna5555]

and foxhunting pisses me off to NO END. i live right next to Middleburg, VA....Hunt Country, USA

bleh

[Mir]

One of their main arguments is " it's tradition " Killing something that has no chance whatsoever of defending itself is a tradition?

So why don't we kill defenseless babies as well? What makes a human life worth more than a fox's life?

Foxes are such pretty, graceful (almost in a feline way) animals.

I am all for eating meat myself, but killing for sport saddens me. Welcome to our world.

[Ishan]

Okay, so - like - I'm totally not a vegetarian, but - like - okay - check this out ..

Alright, that's enough goofy writing.

I am of the belief that I feel better when I eat primarily grains, fruits, veggies and other non-meat items - preferrably the non-manufactured, non-meat items.

However, I do still love a good steak - but it has to be good.

I do not believe in hunting animals for sport - nor do I wear fur. I do wear leather, however.

There are those who believe we are technologically beyond the need for meat, leather and the like - I believe this could be true, but I'm not much into the soy burger (Boca Burgers, as they are called in South Florida). Whatever.

So ... that's my input, for what it's worth.

And yes, foxes are nearly cat-like! Thanks, Mir, for pointing making that observation.

[Ishan]

And I drink milk and eat cheese ... for goodness' sake, we can't be totally fruity, can we?

[Mir]

Milk is good for the bones, or so they would have you believe. In any case, is drinking milk, going against vegan beliefs? I'm not sure. Can the vegans clear this one up please? Because I fail to see the problem with drinking milk. Cows/goats need to be milked. Thats just the way it is. Hmm, I wonder if they enjoy being milked.. =P

[Godslayer Jillian]

In any case not drinking milk seems more logical than not eating meat.
Other animals eat meat, but we are the only species that drinks the milk from a creature with which we can't mate. Sure, you see kitties and sometimes dogs drinking cow's milk, but that's because of their domestication; it's neither instinctive nor necessary.

[honeythorn]

Basically, cows are kept almost constantly pregnant in order for them to produce milk. Then when they have the calf, it is taken away too soon and fed on formulas laced with artificial supplements and hormones in order for it to grow more muscle and flesh than it should. Then they are sold for slaughter.

The calf should be left with it's mother until it is able to fend for itself as nature intended. We aren't biologically designed to drink cows milk, or any other animal milk ( other than our own ) for that matter , as Jillian said.

I'm not vegan , but that's how I see it as being wrong, which is why I drink and consume as little as possible. I hope to cut it out altogether if I can. I like soya milk, it's kind of nutty to the taste.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

In any case not drinking milk seems more logical than not eating meat.
Other animals eat meat, but we are the only species that drinks the milk from a creature with which we can't mate. Sure, you see kitties and sometimes dogs drinking cow's milk, but that's because of their domestication; it's neither instinctive nor necessary.

This is true, and is the reason why so many human beings become intolerant to lactose after infancy; they simply don't need it anymore.

But really, I have no right to talk on the subject of why we drink cow's milk just because I love the stuff so damn much. I couldn't give it up even if all the cows in the world begged me to. And as I think I said earlier in the thread, I try to only buy organic milk from 'happy cows'.

Anyway, on the subject of meat: I've now officially given up eating mammals. My reason: Azerbaijan is a land of lamb kebab, and about every 100m along the main roads there are small slaughtering areas with corpses just hanging from trees being skinned and chopped up, with groups of extremely frightened sheep huddling below them, waiting their turn. I've always known the pain that goes on in slaughterhouses, but seeing those dangling, dead lumps of flesh next to the terrified, alive lumps of flesh was the final straw (especially when you're being served copious amounts of lamb kebab every night), so I'm done.

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Originally Posted by GirlsNotMe

I've totally already covered my view of vegitarianism as being ridiculous (especially for atheists) in another thread so I won't bother to re-paste it unless it is necessary.

Darwinism. DARWINISM.

It is all good and jolly to love animals and pet them and care about their feelings, but kids, when you come right down to it, they ARE inferior. The human race wins, we claim the spoils. That's how it works.

Period.

I agree with you 100%. It's the food chain, right? And we're above them on the food chain. So let's eat them!

Except that (sorry, Uncle Ben, I'm a plagiarist) with great power comes great responsibility. And we have a responsibility to those beneath us to be humane. That doesn't mean we shouldn't eat animals, but it means that we shouldn't mistreat them before we do.

I'm a vegetarian because I can't afford free-range, and I think it's my responsibility to not eat animals that have been mistreated. When I'm no longer a poor 20-year-old student(ish), I will eat meat because I will be able to afford organic free-range meat.

[Circle V]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

But following the logic of getting our own food, we shouldn't eat vegetables unless they're from our own garden.

It has nothing to do with ownership-- merely the means of acquisition. Following my logic, one should only eat vegetables that one personally picked and that grew naturally.

Of course, following my logic, civilization would never have formed.

[ElectricMayhem]

I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons. I've seen photos and videos of what goes on oin slaughterhouses, and that was eough for me.

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Originally Posted by ElectricMayhem

I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons. I've seen photos and videos of what goes on oin slaughterhouses, and that was eough for me.

...Organic free-range?

[honeythorn]

The slaughter process of cattle over here is fairly quick and painless. I have seen footage.

Basically the person doing the job has what looks like a gun. Instead of a bullet there is a long sharp spike. When the trigger is pulled the spike is driven into the brain at high speed, and the cow simply drops. The legs twitch a few times and thats it. Dead.
What I don't like to see is the fear in the animals eyes. It seems to know exactly why it is there and what is going to happen.

Still, I don't like the taste of beef pork and lamb anyway so I don't eat it. My mom is cooking Chicken for dinner today, but I've said I don't want any. I'll have vegetable rice instead

[IsThatLatin]

I stopped eating meat in May of 2004. I don't eat any meat...no fish or poultry. I initially did it for health reasons, but now it's also for ethical reasons. Doing so has really opened up my diet to eating dishes I never would have thought to eat before, and it's been great. I get more than enough protein and actually, as I discovered a few months ago, I've finally got my iron count up to normal for the first time since I was a teen.

I haven't read through this whole thread...I scanned through, read bits. I think I saw a lot of conversation about the morality of eating animals, and only a few people mentioned the cruel industry that meat eating generally supports, which I thought was strange because that's the only moral question I see. We can argue over what does and doesn't deserve to be eaten, but that's tantamount to arguing over the existence or value of the soul. And I think that's a philosophical question that falls in the realm of metaphysics, and maybe shouldn't be applied so dogmatically to anything, let alone dietary choices.

The moral question is whether or not one supports a cruel, unhealthy industry. I chose not to. However, I don't have a problem with anyone hunting for meat to eat for themselves and their family. I do have a problem with sport hunting (making a game out of death is pretty sick no matter how you slice it). As for vegetarians buying their food in stores and not growing it themselves...again...not quite the same. Last I checked, vegetables and fruits don't have nervous systems, so I doubt the industry is causing too much harm there. Regardless, I can't wait to live somewhere where I can have my own garden. I would love to grow most of my own food.

Anyway...enough comment for now...

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Would you agree with meat-eaters going to the grocery store and buying Organic Free-range Meat?

(Please tell me I don't sound like a broken record)

[IsThatLatin]

Originally Posted by DarkHeartedDemoness

Would you agree with meat-eaters going to the grocery store and buying Organic Free-range Meat?

I'm not sure how I could argue with it. i think as long as one is as conscious as one can be about where their food comes from ands tries to support cruelty-free sources of that food, then that's great.

[ArtificialOne]

Peta= People eating tasty animals...
I'm for whatever people want to do but I've worked at allot of resorts and became tired of these Neohippies shuving vegetarianism down my throat. It's just like everything else in life. Discuss but don't preach. Eat a well rounded diet and if it tries to eat you first then eat it before it succeeds. (yes I have had animals try to eat me...just a hazard of traveling... and some of them were kind of tasty)

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

Peta= People eating tasty animals...

Dude... That's a t-shirt, and not a particularly funny one. Not offensive, just kind of lame.