Remember OpteronMan?

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Saya

I'm not sure what being autistic has to do with it.

Not sure myself, but I'm surprised they didn't mention it. If they didn't mention it, it makes me wonder what else they aren't mentioning, and why.

[Xombie]

I didn't see the article myself, but I was told by the gnet member who showed this to me in the first place that he was found. So, I'm going to conclude that he did not commit suicide.
Gee, sorry if this bums any of you out.

[Xombie]

Originally Posted by Renatus

Not sure myself, but I'm surprised they didn't mention it. If they didn't mention it, it makes me wonder what else they aren't mentioning, and why.

They may not even have taken it into account. All of the people with Asperger's that I know, including Opteron, are relatively intelligent people who just seriously lack social skills. It does not make owning 400+ naked kiddie photos and a bunch of videos okay to have, and it does not make the offender think it's okay to have. Regardless of his condition, he was a perv.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Xombie

They may not even have taken it into account. All of the people with Asperger's that I know, including Opteron, are relatively intelligent people who just seriously lack social skills. It does not make owning 400+ naked kiddie photos and a bunch of videos okay to have, and it does not make the offender think it's okay to have. Regardless of his condition, he was a perv.

Yes I am aware. But why was he sentenced to only 30 days the first time? Half the article didn't even talk about him.

Also how did he go on gnet when he did? It says that during his tenure on gnet he was being monitored by police, and was restricted to using the computer only for educational purposes. Obviously the police weren't doing the best job of monitoring him. Makes me wonder how often others can get away with such things. The articles make it sound like Canada is a bit lax compared to the US in terms of punishing sex offenders.

I already jumped to conclusions about the crimes of one former gnetter, I'd rather not make the same mistake twice.

[Annihilation]

Hahahahahahahaha that is insane. Who would have thought? Oh wait.

[CuckooTuli]

Originally Posted by Saya

Thing is, he was convicted of having child porn, not for molestation or sexual assault. He deserves to die just as much as anyone who watches a sn.uff, or gets joy out of watching violent acts.

Also, most child molesters are not pedos, at least not "true" pedoph.iles. They're attracted to adults as well. Its about power, not attraction, and I think using "pedo" clinicalizes it and absolves responsibility for many of them, and makes it harder for true pedos to seek help.

Agree 100% with this. Aside from the fact that we honestly have no idea how many 'true' paedophiles there are around (come on, who's seriously going to admit to THAT one?), to say that ALL of them deserve to die is reactionary bullshit. What about the ones who don't even go NEAR children, because they are fully conscious of the consequences for the kids of being abused, as well as the legal consequences for themselves? As Saya points out, paedo doesn't equal child molester. People can't help their sexual orientation - only their actions.

[Grausamkeit]

There are few things that I actually think should be dealt with by capital punishment, but this is one of them. Hell, it may be the only thing I think is okay to deal with that way.

Saya, it's not a matter of 'lowering ourselves to their level', we'd have to become what they are to do that. A lot of them do prey on family members, but there are still the strangers out there snatching children from playgrounds and front yards or in stores. It's no longer sensationalized like it was in the 80s, though. I am as wary of the people in my family as I am of the rest of the world. Giving my family's laissez faire attitude about creepy people around their kids(which has gotten a lot of them molested) I wouldn't trust any of them as far as I could throw them. Also, a lot of child molesters are normally caught with child porn on their PCs so I don't see how there's much of a difference between a pedo and a molester. I know what people want the difference to be, but I just don't see it. I didn't mean to attack you, Saya, I'm sorry. I feel very passionately about protecting my children. I don't want them to grow up like I did with no one there protecting them.

Stern, I have yet to read any research indicating that pedos can be helped. Most research indicates the contrary. Not only do they not want to be helped they think that there's nothing wrong with how they are and the world should just accept the fact that they want to fuck children. They normally go on to repeat their offenses after doing time or being 'rehabilitated'. How many times is it going to be okay for a person to keep going back out and molesting children again before people realize that it does no good to try to help them? If they actually wanted to be helped that would be one thing and a very few do want help, most don't.

Ren, I know that you want to protect others that are on the spectrum, but molesting kids and being a pedo.phile has fuck all to do with autism.

The idea of being a pedo as a 'sexual orientation is bullshit. It's not a sexual orientation to want to hurt children.

[Ben Lahnger]

There is no evidence presented anywhere in this thread or in the linked articles that states that Opteron ever molested children or had any desire to do so IRL.

Having child pornography in your possession is not the same thing, and cannot be a capitol offense.

You don't get to protect your children by wiping out anyone you think might be a threat.

ETA: Yes, I know this contradicts a statement I made early. I was wrong, and inarticulate in what I was trying to express in that previous statement. Having said that, I have no sympathy for people who actually molest children.

Also, saying they have a mental illness is an easy claim, but I say that any act of violence or rrape or murder is insane, and by definition the perpetrators of all those acts could be said to be mentally ill.

[Grausamkeit]

Actually, Ben, I don't think that you were wrong in your original statement. If there were no people out there wanting CP, then there would probably be fewer people out there supplying the demand of taking pictures depicting children in sexual manners. People who create a demand for pictures of children being rraped and sexualized are as guilty as the people doing the acts, in my opinion. They are feeding the problem.

Also, I don't consider it mental illness. I call it sick, but what I mean is that it makes me want to blow chunks knowing that there are people in the world that think it's okay to molest a child and enjoy pictures of children being molested and sexualized.

[CuckooTuli]

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

Actually, Ben, I don't think that you were wrong in your original statement. If there were no people out there wanting CP, then there would probably be fewer people out there supplying the demand of taking pictures depicting children in sexual manners. People who create a demand for pictures of children being rraped and sexualized are as guilty as the people doing the acts, in my opinion. They are feeding the problem.

But that's like claiming anyone who's ever snorted coke is as bad as the murderers in drugs cartels, or that anyone who ever bought from Nike doesn't give a rat's arse about Third World sweatshops. (I used to believe that, in my younger days of self-righteousness, until I realised that most people just want to live their lives, and will take denial to amazing lengths to justify their right to do so.)

You have to differentiate, surely, between the makers, the distributors, and the consumers of child pornography, in the same way that you do these other purveyors of products based in blood and exploitation. I appreciate that this is a highly sensitive subject, and it's not my intention to defend the people who do any of these things.

But child pornography is graded, from simply images of naked children, to the hideously unpleasant stuff (my mother works for the county police, and a particularly unpleasant part of her job is sorting CP images by grade). There is a spectrum of suffering in those images, which probably makes it easier for those consumers with any moral sensibility whatsoever to justify the softer stuff to themselves, in the same way that we justify ourselves when we buy products which we know cause suffering in their manufacture - whether the products is a drug, or clothing from sweatshops. I think we need to differentiate between paedophiles who look at portrait pictures of naked kids (sometimes found on Google - there was a time when they weren't uncommon), and those who look at pictures of children being molested, to varying degrees of brutality.

I'm not saying this is okay. Just that it happens, even with people who DON'T possess any kind of pathology that puts them wrong of their peers. Essentially, I believe paedophiles (not necessarily child molestors: they aren't interchangeable), who do look at child porn, fall prey to the same wilful ignorance of suffering that most human beings do. It's amazing what we can justify when it suits our purposes to do so.

Like I said, some CP images aren't particularly sexual, in the sense that the making of them was likely to have caused suffering to the children involved (as I said, a large amoun of CP seized appears in the form of non-sexualised naked portraits of children too young to understand the difference between clothed and unclothed). I'm not saying this makes their manufacture okay... but with those 'soft' images, all I honestly see is people doing what people do on a daily basis within officially sanctioned culture.

[Grausamkeit]

CuckooTuli, I am willing to compromise my view and say that not all paedophiles support the greater degree of the worst child porn. Maybe there are some who actually see what they feel is wrong, but that has not been my experience. If there were some scientific evidence that they could be helped I would probably change my opinion on killing them.

People often think that I make the remark of capitol punishment flippantly, I don't. Taking another's life is the worst, most grave thing one person can do to another. I do not advocate for it lightly without reflecting on the possible consequences. Sometimes there is little choice in dealing with people who are dangerous and can't be helped or rehabilitated.

[Cosmicgaunt]

hahaomg lol.

[CuckooTuli]

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

CuckooTuli, I am willing to compromise my view and say that not all paedophiles support the greater degree of the worst child porn. Maybe there are some who actually see what they feel is wrong, but that has not been my experience. If there were some scientific evidence that they could be helped I would probably change my opinion on killing them.

I appreciate your consideration in view of what is evidently a sensitive subject for you - whether that's from personal experience of the childhood variety, or simply becoming a parent, I wouldn't presume to guess. However, I must point out that scientific evidence on paedophiles is hard to come by. To take the very basic example of the heterosexual male: imagine a world in which men being sexually attracted to women, to the point where this is something that merely owning up to it would be enough to have the people around you baying for your blood, is considered wrong to the point of sickness. Those with that proclivity would most frequently clam the fuck up, out of sheer self-preservation.

An analogy would be trying to gather data on male heterosexuality, based on findings garnered from rapists; those with this proclivity, but lacking the empathy to avoid acting upon it in a damaging fashion. It's similar with paedophiles; hard to gather data, when most of the ones who make it onto our radar are the those who act upon their urges, without considering the damage to others. And so, they become the representatives of their kind. People find the urges they acted uupon repehensible. And those who might never act upon them, would nevertheless NEVER admit to them. And so, the circle jerks. Like I said - we honestly don't know how many paedophiles there are, for this reason.

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

People often think that I make the remark of capitol punishment flippantly, I don't. Taking another's life is the worst, most grave thing one person can do to another. I do not advocate for it lightly without reflecting on the possible consequences. Sometimes there is little choice in dealing with people who are dangerous and can't be helped or rehabilitated.

Execution costs the state more than life imprisonment, what with appeals etc. On that basis, there's always a choice. If you think paedophiles deserve to die, that's your opinion. But to claim it's the only logical option is just plain wrong, on the basis of cost alone.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

Also, saying they have a mental illness is an easy claim, but I say that any act of violence or rrape or murder is insane, and by definition the perpetrators of all those acts could be said to be mentally ill.

Not at all. The only people who would be aroused by such material to the point they would actively acquire more and use it for stimulative purposes are those who are ill.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Oh guys, incoming message from Kontan:

*Huuuuuurrrrrkkaaaagggguuuurrrrk!*

Hey, I fucking knew there was something weird about that fucker. Let it be known that NONE of you dipshits are allowed to question my judgment of a person's character ever again. If I say you're a volcanic-breathed oxygen theif it's because you ARE! If I say your trouser-coughs can peel lead paint, it's because THEY CAN! You think I'm lying about this shit? Ophelia: don't you EVER in your LIFE question my judgement of character EVER AGAIN! If I say someone is HOT GARBAGE they are HOT GARBAGE!

Now get da fuck out my face. Sheeeeeiiiiitttttt!

*Huuurrrrkk!*

I'm back...what did I miss?

Wait, did I say Opteron was ok? Dude was annoying as shit.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Saya

I'm not sure what being autistic has to do with it.

It has fucking nothing to do with it, and it's pretty insulting to people who are autistic to even being it up in this context.

[JCC]

I'm glad I was a fat kid with glasses when I used to talk to this guy, he could've hit on me if I was hot as I am now.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

It has fucking nothing to do with it, and it's pretty insulting to people who are autistic to even being it up in this context.

Yes because lord knows I love insulting myself.

It has possibly a great deal more to do with this than you know.
While yes autistics are capable of great acts of good, there is a dark side to it, one that I had hoped not to mention. I don't like thinking about this at all, but some of the world's worst criminals are also suspected of being autistic, I will not name names. How and if autism is related to the crimes of these people is unknown, as is how likely an autistic is to commit crimes, and how severe those crimes are on average compared to a neurotypical.

I mentioned it originally out of attempting to take consideration of all possible factors, and as Grausamkeit said, out of concern for a fellow Aspergerian. I've been regretting mentioning it myself before anyone else questioned it, as it is a sensitive topic for me. I'd prefer not to continue this line of discussion, and I hope this explanation is to your satisfaction.

[Sinjob]

This whole thing is just as shocking as it is believable. Fucking manbabies. And there's probably a good amount of creeps still on this strange wasteland of a forum.

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm glad I was a fat kid with glasses when I used to talk to this guy, he could've hit on me if I was hot as I am now.

We should post our before and after photos haha

[Still Jack]

Holy fucking shit, Malice and I were stalked by that motherfucker.

[Timeless Rebellion]

Originally Posted by Renatus

Yes because lord knows I love insulting myself.

It has possibly a great deal more to do with this than you know.
While yes autistics are capable of great acts of good, there is a dark side to it, one that I had hoped not to mention. I don't like thinking about this at all, but some of the world's worst criminals are also suspected of being autistic, I will not name names. How and if autism is related to the crimes of these people is unknown, as is how likely an autistic is to commit crimes, and how severe those crimes are on average compared to a neurotypical.

I mentioned it originally out of attempting to take consideration of all possible factors, and as Grausamkeit said, out of concern for a fellow Aspergerian. I've been regretting mentioning it myself before anyone else questioned it, as it is a sensitive topic for me. I'd prefer not to continue this line of discussion, and I hope this explanation is to your satisfaction.

I just don't believe that you can go and use a diagnosis of autism as an excuse for crimes.
While morality might not be a concept we naturally grasp as easily, it doesn't mean we cannot grasp it.
And no matter the urges someone with autism should feel, these urges can ALWAYS be fought.

I used my diagnosis as an excuse for all kinds of crap during a period of my life.
As I got older and wiser, this led me to realize that it is utter bullshit to do so.
Ultimately, we are just as responsible for our own actions as the next guy.

I get your point, don't get me wrong.
There are things that can be blamed on autism, but I just don't believe it is relevant when we talk about child por nography and pedophile acts.
Or crimes of this magnitude in general.

And I do believe that therapy treatment should be offered to first-time offenders of CP instead of jail time.
But I also believe that if it happens, you should be punished no less than the next guy just because you are lucky enough to have a diagnosis.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

Holy fucking shit, Malice and I were stalked by that motherfucker.

Oh yeah, didn't he do it on like msn too? Anyone tell Malice?

As for the autism link, I think a lot of people try to diagnose criminals, some legit have it and sometimes I think they're reaching. Again, most child molesters aren't "true" pedos and it might be that when criminals show a limit to their empathy (and when it comes to violent offenders, that happens a lot) we want to clinicalize that. Dude was pretty self absorbed and unable to empathize with the kids being victimized for his pleasure. It would be hard to argue that it was due to Asperger syndrome or a character flaw, but in the end its a moot point anyway because if he were to use it as a legal defense, he'd have to prove that he's to the point where he can't tell right from wrong.

Plus we only have his word that he was officially diagnosed. It could be that he wasn't, and its not something journalists could necessarily find out anyway since that kind of info is private.

[Renatus]

Its not so much about defending his actions as it is about treatment and future prevention of such actions by him. Enjoying child porn like that is sick, and as with treatment of physical diseases, knowing preexisting conditions(such as allergies to medications) of a patient can be key in the proper treatment of a disease, as well as preexisting conditions that leave one potentially vulnerable to disease(such as aids).

It is his fault for what he did I know, my thinking on it is that the sickness provided the temptation, it was his choice to give in. Like how while stealing a 10 million dollars sounds tempting, especially in these hard times, it takes an actual choice by a person to try and steal it.

Of course these are not the thoughts of a professional, these are just what I can logically conceive of that provides some sort of satisfactory explanation for my mind to grasp.

[HumanePain]

Here is the problem I have with your temptation as an excuse theory: When I quit drinking and quit smoking years ago I was "tempted" too, but I resisted that temptation with strength of character. Even with his "natural" attraction to CP he should have said "no". Giving in to something you know is wrong is weakness of character.

The Ancient philosophers said we are composed of passions, reason and spirit, and that happiness (and living "right") depended on reason being in control. If we let passion control we run into the ditch, and likewise with the spirit.

Surrendering reason to passions makes us animals, and that is what he became.

[Still Jack]

Originally Posted by Saya

Oh yeah, didn't he do it on like msn too? Anyone tell Malice

Yeah I'm tight with malice, I texted him earlier. He said it was the best thing to wake up to ever.

What worries me is that he has my fucking home address. If he shows up at my gaff, I'm gonna kick a hole in his back and beat him to death with his own spine. He found out more shit about me than a lot of quite close friend know...