Christianity...

[Godslayer Jillian]

Furthermore with the issue of free will, which actually enters into Linen's view of evil, let's look at which has more free will:
In the Christian point of view, God does have a plan, but he stills allow us for free will in its entiety. Regardless of the consequences, we have the choice of making such decision.
In an evolutive way, what can come up out of pure free will? Every decision I make is nothing but a choice following the survival of the fittest. There are only a finite choices a human can make which; and, if we were to record every instance in human history, we would see the same pattern repeating itself over and over in the lives of all men because we all choose the best possibility for a better life.
If someone knows everything about animal nature, he could narrow down every choice we will make in the future to perfect accuracy.
If someone knew God's plan, he still doesn't know the means to get to that end.

[insertwittyname]

Why is incest not allowed when all humans come from the 6 people in Noah's Arc? And then all the important people in the bible seem to marry their cousins... *my knowledge of Christianity comes from raised Catholic mother and strong God believing friends, if I mess up, I'm sorry*

[Splintered]

Originally Posted by knightmare

Free Will and Predestination are intertwined. One does not affect the other. He already knows about human nature, and He knows how humans will respond to the events of life. This does not limit free will in the least. People still can act out of their desires, and still fulfill God's plan.

God created the desires.
God created the environment.
God created the time for the event to happen.
God created the people.
God created the events.
God created Human Nature.
God created God's plan.

Therefore, God created everything, and with divine purpose, let it occur.

Let me use an analogy in regard to chemistry. Let's say God is the chemist, we are the intial reactants, and the mixing reactant is the consequence of your actions. The chemist knows the product of the reaction before he even mixes the reactants. His knowing of the product does not interfere with the behavior of the chemicals in anyway. Since he created them, he knows how the chemicals react, and will know the outcome. "If God's plan had predetermined everything from the beginning - who goes to heaven and who goes to hell - then it's useless to have created everything." No, since how will His plan come to pass? Do you plan for inaction? The chemist knows the product that will result, but he still needs his reactants to make it occur.

Unfortunately, this analogy fails to note several key points:

1. Chemists Do Not Make The Original Reactants From Scratch

Say I am going to create Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O. Di - Two Hydrogen, Mono - One Oxygen).

Even if I could atomically bond Hydrogen and Oxygen together, I can not create them individually by itself. (Law of Thermodynamics). God on the other hand, can. Why is this a vital difference? Because while a chemist is simply mixing them together, God is creating them (Supposedly with a purpose), and then mixing them. Showing divine manipulation, and therefore the loss of free will.

2. We don't know what will come out of any given formula

While it is true that if I combine Oxygen and Hydrogen in the correct portions, I will get water, it is not true that this is universally certain. We exist in a state of uncertainty, where it is quite possible that me drinking a diet soda, will make my head explode.

God on the other hand, deals with absolutes. Why is this vital? Because God, being omniscient, has no room for uncertainty. Knowing the correct amounts, and knowing the way the reactants work in a whole, allows for God to predict exactly what will happen. Chemists can't.

3. We Didn't Start The Universe

A Chemist didn't start the entire universe, and create it in it's whole. This is incredibly vital, because God, did. Using the argument, "Well, we're living it, which makes it free will", doesn't make sense. Why? Say I were to push a man off a cliff (We're going to call this the absolute cliff. Using the established terms above, God deals in absolutes). If I push someone off a the absolute cliff, he is absolutely going to fall. While God did not orchestrate the fall himself, he still pushed the person off the cliff, which will lead to the ground.

Now, to extend to "Heaven" and "Hell". Let's say that there are two sides you can fall on. One, is a bunch of really fluffy pillows, and the Playboy Mansion. The other is just a bunch of spikes sticking up. While it is true that your actions would effect where you go (I.E. Flailing your arms, moving around etc), it would not be the primary catalyst. The primary catalyst would be God, who pushed you in a certain direction, and you simply fell that way.

Or, continuing on another line of though, it must be noted that God made both of the sides of the ground you can fall on, and gave the air it's properties to where you will go.

Also, the destructive consequences of your sinful behavior actually supports free will. In the Bible, sin is bondage. Mankind's view of free will is different than God's view. What is freedom for us, is bondage to Him. Why do you think He is without sin? We were made in His image, and the only way to break the cycle of bondage is death.

Your argument makes no sense (Although, I'm chalking it up to mis-presentation.)

In my mind, it boils down to this:

In the Bible, sin is bondage.
God wrote the Bible, and therefore is his words.
Freedom for us, is bondage to Him.
Bondage to God then, must be sin.
Since God is supposedly without sin, he must then logically, be without Bonds.
We are bonded to God, which contradicts that statement.
The Cycle of Bondage is connection to God.
Therefore, death must be disconnection with God.

In an evolutive way, what can come up out of pure free will? Every decision I make is nothing but a choice following the survival of the fittest. There are only a finite choices a human can make which; and, if we were to record every instance in human history, we would see the same pattern repeating itself over and over in the lives of all men because we all choose the best possibility for a better life.

First of all, Natural Selection, i.e. Survival of the Fittest, does not necessarily apply in the same species. Ergo, some of the fruitless decisions we can make (Like deciding whether I want a black bed, or a white bed.)

Second of all, not every choice is for a better life. Cocaine addicts are not heading for a better life. The homeless are not employed are not heading for a better life. Etc, etc. Therefore, not all men make the best choice for the best possibility of a better life.

If someone knows everything about animal nature, he could narrow down every choice we will make in the future to perfect accuracy.
If someone knew God's plan, he still doesn't know the means to get to that end.

Actually, a rather interesting book by Isaac Asimov, Foundation, touched on this.
Knowing all of the elements of animal nature, you could theoretically predict every choice with perfect accuracy, and know the means to get to the end.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Splintered

Ergo, some of the fruitless decisions we can make (Like deciding whether I want a black bed, or a white bed.)

And those small decisions are the product of the psychological and sociological causes you have experienced. There is nothing, even in the most menial choices, that you decided by yourself. Those small choices are nothing but the product of your mind, shaped in its entirety by outside forces I stated before: Biological, psychological, and sociological.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by insertwittyname

Why is incest not allowed when all humans come from the 6 people in Noah's Arc? And then all the important people in the bible seem to marry their cousins... *my knowledge of Christianity comes from raised Catholic mother and strong God believing friends, if I mess up, I'm sorry*

Incest was a necessity when Adam and Eve were created.
The blasphemy of incest is purely the genetical mutations that come from it. Not all, but a very large quantity of the offsprings of intermarriage have either physical or psychological distortions.
But, as in the beginning man was perfect, there was no risk of a genetic miscalculation in the beginning of time.
It was not until the angels guarding Eden began to mate with humans (creating the Nephilim) that human genetics were corrupted.
Even if God destroyed everyone but Noah's family, they had the traits of the Nephilim in their DNA already.
These traits began to degrade human genetics.
An example of this is that people used to live for centuries; now we don't get to live one.
It was not until the laws of Moses that incest was decreed as wrong.

[Splintered]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

And those small decisions are the product of the psychological and sociological causes you have experienced. There is nothing, even in the most menial choices, that you decided by yourself. Those small choices are nothing but the product of your mind, shaped in its entirety by outside forces I stated before: Biological, psychological, and sociological.

Actually, not entirely.
You see, there is the possibility of something being random.
Unlike God, we as humans do not deal with absolutes. Rather, we deal with percentages of the likely outcome of something to happen. Because of uncertainty, we have no way of knowing exactly what will happen. Therefore, randomness, or at least pseudorandomness, can exist.

Say for instance, say I yell out "TESTICLE!", in the middle of a crowded theater. There does not have to be a reason for me yelling out such a word, nor does there have to be a reason for me yell out such a thing. I simply did it. Even the word could be completely random, with no previous factors from biological, psychological, or sociological elements.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Haha, I'll buy you a beer if you do that.
But then, there are two reasons why would someone do it. Either they have a history of blurting random words or something of similar nature; or, as it would be your case if you do it, to prove a point.
There is most definitely the uncertainty factor i which we could argue that those two are not necessarily the only instances possible; but, using a scientific approach, I won't believe otherwise until I observe it.

[Splintered]

May I introduce you to Quantum Physics?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

There's also a third reason they would do it: Just to do it.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Well, if we're speaking about quantum physics, then lets remember for a minute the little electron that had two paths.
Will he choose the right path? Will he choose the left path?
No.
He goes through both paths.
He splits relity into two universes so that he can go in both directions. One in each universe.
Equally, if you're speaking about quantum physics, you have no free will, because you don't choose something; you just happen to do all possible outcomes.
Remember I'm a nerd for quantum physics. It's quantum physics because of which, even being an antitheistic satanist - and the high priest of the (un)Holy Church of Dada - I don't believe there's free will in the universe.

[Splintered]

I like you. May I have your children?

Anyway, while it is true that it will go through all the universes, and every option that can occur will in the a multi verse theory, the randomness comes in on which one will occur in our universe. While he goes go through the left and the right path in multiple universes, what matters is what direction he goes through ours.

As for Dada. Well, the concept of "Anti-Art" as Wikipedia is unique, I suppose, it doesn't make any sense (From what I'm reading, and correct me if this source is wrong), it's going against what seems like progression, and forcing irony. The use of The Church of Euthanasia (My introduction to Dadaism), doesn't cross me as anything good. Yet, I suppose everything has it's extremists.

But hey. The Church of the SubGenius is in the same category, so I'll welcome Dadaism any day.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Splintered

I like you. May I have your children?

Aren't we both guys?

Originally Posted by Splintered

But hey. The Church of the SubGenius is in the same category, so I'll welcome Dadaism any day.

Haha, my new church is another subject for another place in another time.

[Splintered]

Like I said, unless you, and you know who you are, have something to tell me, then yeah, we're both guys....
In which case...

Anyone have a scalpel?

Wait. What the subject?

[knightmare]

"Or, continuing on another line of though, it must be noted that God made both of the sides of the ground you can fall on, and gave the air it's properties to where you will go." He did create us with moral limits because those limits are part of His plan. Imagine how chaotic life would be without limits. It is like the natural world without laws like gravity, etc. It would be chaos and nothing would be exempt from destruction. His set of rules are necessary for our survival. The only being who is exempt from these rules is Deity. Natural man should not expect to be able to live outside of His limits. Just like the universe itself is bound by natural laws.
We still do have free will. We can choose to break the moral rules imposed to us. God does not manipulate you to sin, since He is without sin. It is your choice, and God punishes those who break His law. You can say that itself is a limit to our free will. But sin is bondage. Doesn't God have a free will greater than ours? Yet He is without sin. Sin was not a part of His original creation. That is why death was introduced after the Fall. Death is a means of severance from this world of sin.
"Freedom for us, is bondage to Him. Bondage to God then, must be sin.
Since God is supposedly without sin, he must then logically, be without Bonds. We are bonded to God, which contradicts that statement." While sinful choices seem like freedom to us, it is not. Our viewpoints are skewed since our Fall. Sin is bondage to God and sin should be bondage to us. Like you said, God deals in absolutes, and there is no way that sin can also be freedom. We were made in His own image. Also sin tends to destruction. Destruction in this world is a result of sin. Just look at history, Hitler's unfounded hatred for Jews, Stalin, etc. Sin is limiting. Even natural disasters are attributed to the sin of man. Just look at the flood of Noah in Scripture. God is sustaining the universe and upholding the natural laws of the universe. Also, we are not bonded to God in any way. He is independent. We have a relationship with God, but not a bond. Just like in a father-son relationship. They still have their own identity. Repentance is crucial in Christianity to maintain our relationship with God. Also there is the need for Jesus' sacrifice as a substitution. Instead of looking at us, for who we are, He looks at the perfect life of Jesus, which Christians acknowledge as their Savior. Also, death is the connection TO God, that's why it was introduced after the Fall. Without death, there would be no absolute connection to God because of the presence of sin. Why would God want to distance Himself from His own creation?

[AngelOfMusic]

I am a Christian. I was raised as one but slowly turned from faith when a lot of stuff began to happen to me. (I will not get into that) I also became interested in wicca and for a little while began practicing it but I felt that Christianity was the only way and was true. I had visions and God also started answering some of my prayers. I talked to my boyfriend who helped me out and that is when I became saved. I do not agree with everything in the bible and I do not force my religion onto anybody. I accept everyone for who they are and I am not saying that the bible is true though I believe it is but like other religions it could be false that is why it is called Faith. I hate it when someone makes fun of a Christian or puts down their religion because to me everyone has their own thing not everyone is the same. I do make fun of some Christians though and have hatred for others such as the High and Mighty (They do no wrong) Christians and those who think Goths are Satanist or Evil because Goth is not about that.

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

I don't hate Christians-- I hate extremists, and I hate people who have never tried to learn anything about their faith. I hate people that don't understand that, according to their religion, God is love and he told them, through his son, "Let he without sin cast the first stone", and "judge not lest ye be judged." I hate people who preach falsely about their religion, or try to force it on others. I hate people who listen to those who preach falsely, and follow their word, thinking that it is the Word of God.

You seem to have a refreshingly healthy attitude about your religion, and I respect you for being strong enough to have faith in something you don't know is fact.

[AngelOfMusic]

I understand what you are saying. People like my dad who makes the bible into what they want it to be and go around preaching to everyone about what someone is doing is wrong but yet they think they do no wrong themselves.

[Splintered]

Originally Posted by knightmare

"Or, continuing on another line of though, it must be noted that God made both of the sides of the ground you can fall on, and gave the air it's properties to where you will go." He did create us with moral limits because those limits are part of His plan. Imagine how chaotic life would be without limits. It is like the natural world without laws like gravity, etc. It would be chaos and nothing would be exempt from destruction. His set of rules are necessary for our survival. The only being who is exempt from these rules is Deity. Natural man should not expect to be able to live outside of His limits. Just like the universe itself is bound by natural laws.

Unfortunately, moral limits and physical limits are not one in the same. Physical limits like gravity, are unmovable, and a universal constant (Depending on the stimuli, the variables, etc. More accurately, they all follow an equation.) Moral limits are movable. For instance, I can willingly break the ten commandments, while I can't defy the laws of gravity.

Also, keep in note, societies have existed without God's limits too. They did just fine.

We still do have free will. We can choose to break the moral rules imposed to us. God does not manipulate you to sin, since He is without sin. It is your choice, and God punishes those who break His law. You can say that itself is a limit to our free will. But sin is bondage. Doesn't God have a free will greater than ours? Yet He is without sin.

You're making not making sense to me.
We can break the rules, yet we'll be punished; therefore it's free will.
God also has more free will then us, yet is without sin, yet imposing limits on us keeps us from sin; which he made in the first place?

Sin was not a part of His original creation.

We don't know that.

That is why death was introduced after the Fall. Death is a means of severance from this world of sin.
1. How do we know it was introduced after the fall deliberately?
2. Why put us in the world of sin in the first place?

"Freedom for us, is bondage to Him. Bondage to God then, must be sin.
Since God is supposedly without sin, he must then logically, be without Bonds. We are bonded to God, which contradicts that statement." While sinful choices seem like freedom to us, it is not.

You're contradicting yourself.
You tell us we have free will, yet we don't have freedom.

Our viewpoints are skewed since our Fall. Sin is bondage to God and sin should be bondage to us. Like you said, God deals in absolutes, and there is no way that sin can also be freedom. We were made in His own image. Also sin tends to destruction. Destruction in this world is a result of sin.
Yet, later you tell us how we have no bond.
God also created sin, and therefore the destruction.

Just look at history, Hitler's unfounded hatred for Jews, Stalin, etc. Sin is limiting.

And the inquisition was what?

Even natural disasters are attributed to the sin of man. Just look at the flood of Noah in Scripture.

Yet, we're not sure if fhtat happend.

God is sustaining the universe and upholding the natural laws of the universe.

They're doing a pretty good job of doing that by them selves.

Also, we are not bonded to God in any way. He is independent. We have a relationship with God, but not a bond. Just like in a father-son relationship.

You're contradicting yourself. You said that we were bonded to God by sin.

They still have their own identity. Repentance is crucial in Christianity to maintain our relationship with God. Also there is the need for Jesus' sacrifice as a substitution. Instead of looking at us, for who we are, He looks at the perfect life of Jesus, which Christians acknowledge as their Savior. Also, death is the connection TO God, that's why it was introduced after the Fall. Without death, there would be no absolute connection to God because of the presence of sin. Why would God want to distance Himself from His own creation?

You're not making sense here either.
You're asserting facts that you don't have capabilities over (When Death was introduced and why, why there is a need for Jesus sacrifice and what it is, how God judges us, and we're not connected with God in this world, and that death connects us.)
Why would God make sin, or death avaliable in the first place?
Why is there a need for Jesus's sacrifice, and how do you know it's substitution?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Splintered

Moral limits are movable. For instance, I can willingly break the ten commandments, while I can't defy the laws of gravity.

Then you do agree with me that we have absolute free will.

Originally Posted by Splintered

Also, keep in note, societies have existed without God's limits too. They did just fine.

Actually, haven't most of them already died? Except for Eastern cultures, all other civilizations now are offshoots of Abrahamic archetypes.
[quote=Splintered]
We can break the rules, yet we'll be punished; therefore it's free will.[quote=Splintered] Yes, it is indeed.

Originally Posted by Splintered

God also has more free will then us

No he hasn't. He could, but he doesn't. He cannot do evil; He cannot will himself dead; he cannot lie. He has given us more free will than He allows himself to have. Ain't that great. And before anyone says anything about "Well, that's not omnipotence" I'll introduce y'all a new word: Semantics.

Originally Posted by Splintered

Sin was not a part of His original creation.
We don't know that.

Yes we do. Read the Scriptures, and talk to any Biblical theologian. God already knew about the Fall, but it wasn't part of his plan; it was something his plan had to work around.

Originally Posted by Splintered

1. How do we know it was introduced after the fall deliberately?

Again, Scriptures.

Originally Posted by Splintered

2. Why put us in the world of sin in the first place?

Because sin came with free will. A world with free will always will have sin.

Originally Posted by Splintered

God also created sin, and therefore the destruction.

God didn't create Sin just as he didn't create darkness. Darkness is a word we coined for the lack of licht just as Sin is a word we coined for what we do that harms our relationship with God.
[quote=Splintered]And the inquisition was what?[quote=Splintered]
An act by a corrupted church that had no biblical stances for such atrocious methods.

Originally Posted by Splintered

Even natural disasters are attributed to the sin of man. Just look at the flood of Noah in Scripture.
Yet, we're not sure if that happend.

Oh, don't even begin with that. Even I believe there was a flood. If not, how come every culture has a record of a flood? (the stories of Gilgamesh, Noah, the Popol Vuh, the transition from the silver race to the bronze race in Greek mythology...)

Originally Posted by Splintered

God is sustaining the universe and upholding the natural laws of the universe.
They're doing a pretty good job of doing that by themselves.

This would only be right if God exists and only be wrong if he doesn't. Therefore, both of you make a pointless argument in here.
[quote=Splintered]Why would God make sin, or death avaliable in the first place?[quote=Splintered]He didn't make Sin, as it's not a thing. But he did create death. It's the only way to go back to His kingdom.

Originally Posted by Splintered

Why is there a need for Jesus's sacrifice

People sacificed to the Father to pay penance for their sins. As so, the ultimate sacrifice and only sacrifice big enough to cover for all human sins in times before and times to come is a willing sacrifice of God Himself.

Originally Posted by Splintered

and how do you know it's substitution?

Well, even though I'm still not a Christian, I do know of a good reason to believe he's the only way. Jesus has been the only person to come back from the dead on his own accord (and let me remark that it was three days after) and still he says he's the only way to eternal life.
Who better to believe about the afterlife than the man who did die?

[knightmare]

Good job, Jillian, looks like I don't have to say much.
There is so much proof for the Flood. Not only is it mentioned by several different cultures, and there are even geological evidences. Again, God can not bear sin, and He said that His creation was good in Genesis. Sin came as a result of free will. In fact, sin is the ultimate act of free will. In the Gospels, Jesus says that He wills noone would be lost, and that He would die for the world.
In Romans, God said that He gave over man to their own desires. He believes in free will so much that He is willing for some of His creation to be lost because it is their choice.

[Splintered]

Actually, haven't most of them already died? Except for Eastern cultures, all other civilizations now are offshoots of Abrahamic archetypes.

Except for? Those are some of the biggest cultures on Earth.
Even though Christianity and Islam may be the biggest, with the most worshipers, they are certaintly not without good company.[1]

No he hasn't. He could, but he doesn't. He cannot do evil; He cannot will himself dead; he cannot lie. He has given us more free will than He allows himself to have. Ain't that great. And before anyone says anything about "Well, that's not omnipotence" I'll introduce y'all a new word: Semantics.

Question.
How do you know?
Without screaming, "But the Bible says it's true, therefore it must be true (That's circular logic)", how do you know that God has not done evil? How do you know that he has not lied?

Yes we do. Read the Scriptures, and talk to any Biblical theologian. God already knew about the Fall, but it wasn't part of his plan; it was something his plan had to work around.

So, you're telling me this incredibly powerful God, who created the universe, matter, etc. couldn't predict that his own creation would have the chance to deviate, and that Satan (Who he also created), would tempt them?
Also, show me where in the scriptures it says he wasn't born capable to do evil.

Again, Scriptures.

Where do scriptures supposedly gain their authority from? God.
Who dictate the Bible? God.
Therefore, because the Bible says something, it must be true because God said it, is once again, circular logic.

Because sin came with free will. A world with free will always will have sin.

Then why give us free will in the first place? It's superfluous.

God didn't create Sin just as he didn't create darkness. Darkness is a word we coined for the lack of licht just as Sin is a word we coined for what we do that harms our relationship with God.

And who created the lack of such a relationship?

An act by a corrupted church that had no biblical stances for such atrocious methods.

Yet, done in the name of God. You would figure that would be something he'd keep in check.

Oh, don't even begin with that. Even I believe there was a flood. If not, how come every culture has a record of a flood? (the stories of Gilgamesh, Noah, the Popol Vuh, the transition from the silver race to the bronze race in Greek mythology...)

Because floods happen a lot?
Hell, I'm in Washington right now, and we're getting pounded pretty hard, so much that we're flooding. It occurs a lot, and over a thousand years or so, you would expect to see a few major floods.
Also, how come a bunch of events happened during such a flood too.
Such as:
* Syria: Foundation of the city of Mari (29th century BC )
* Iraq: Creation of the Kingdom of Elam
* Germination of the Bristlecone pine tree "Methuselah" about 2700 BC, the oldest known tree still living now
* Dynasty of Lagash in Sumeria
* Golden age of Ur in Mesopotamia. (2474–2398 BC)
* Third and Fourth dynasty of Egypt.
* Unified Indus Valley Civilisation (2600 BC)
* Indo-Europeans first invade Greece (23rd century BC)
* Megalithic, Corded Ware culture and the Beaker flourish in Europe.
* mid- to late 3rd millennium, Hellenic immigration to the Greek mainland.
[2 ]

That's not also bringing in the possibility that the Bible ripped off other religions or that the flood story was made up.

He didn't make Sin, as it's not a thing. But he did create death. It's the only way to go back to His kingdom.

Sin may not be a thing, but then neither is an idea by that usage.
Why would he allow sin to happen in the first place then?

People sacificed to the Father to pay penance for their sins. As so, the ultimate sacrifice and only sacrifice big enough to cover for all human sins in times before and times to come is a willing sacrifice of God Himself.

So, instead of sacrificing myself to God, I sacrifice myself to Jesus. That's great.
It still doesn't cover the fact he could have prevented the situation in the first place.

Well, even though I'm still not a Christian, I do know of a good reason to believe he's the only way. Jesus has been the only person to come back from the dead on his own accord (and let me remark that it was three days after) and still he says he's the only way to eternal life.

Supposedly came back.

Who better to believe about the afterlife than the man who did die?

Those who have had Near Death Experiences?
People die a lot, and are revived.

There is so much proof for the Flood. Not only is it mentioned by several different cultures, and there are even geological evidences.

Show me then. Give me evidence I can work with.

Again, God can not bear sin, and He said that His creation was good in Genesis.

Which verse?
Where's corroborating evidence?
Where's supporting logical arguments?

Sin came as a result of free will. In fact, sin is the ultimate act of free will.

And yet, you state God has more free will.
How do we know he doens't sin?

In the Gospels, Jesus says that He wills noone would be lost, and that He would die for the world.

That's a nice thought.
What is this contributing?

In Romans, God said that He gave over man to their own desires. He believes in free will so much that He is willing for some of His creation to be lost because it is their choice.

So, we basically follow his way, and live.
Or we don't follow his way, or die, and burn in hell.
...
So, you escape God, how?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Ok, everytime we speak there are more and more subjects, so I'll try to narrow it down:
On the subject of free will- He gave us more free will than He allows Himself to have; even if we have to affront the consequences, we can still make that choice. If you don't like this logic, too bad, that doesn't prove Christianity is wrong; it only porves you don't like it wether it's true or not.

On the circular logic of the Scriptures being truth- Of course if it says it in the Bible it's true; unless you have a way to prove the scriptures wrong, which you haven't quite done so much as disagreed with them.

Those who have had Near Death Experiences?
People die a lot, and are revived.
Not on their own accords. People are revived. People do not revived. You see the difference?
Look for someone that died and came back to life three days later without a defribilator. Or even so, how could Jesus have used a defribilator?
Yes, people are revived, now. You must remember medicine was God-awful in these times. Jesus resurrected by his own power. How could you argue that?

[NME]

Christianity, the "right" religion? Bullshit. I don't believe that there is any single "right" belief. Though, I DO believe in God, and I DO believe that there are specific paths to Him/Her. Of course, I also believe that each person has a different path to follow. Jesus said something along the lines of "There is only one way to God, and that is through Me." Well, I think he wass speaking only to those people who truly belongs on his path. Other people had other paths to follow.

The trick is finding your path. No one can ever know that they are on the correct path. Not, that it, until they die. But if they at least spend some time searching for it, well, at least they're going in the right direction. One can never be faulted for trying their best.

[Born Again]

No one can ever know that they are on the correct path. Not, that it, until they die.

I disagree. When someone is not following the path that God specifically gave to them, God has no problem giving them hell for it. If you feel empty, depressed, etc. that's usually a sign from God that you're not, well, following your given path.

If your lost about the path that you were given, God gives hints, more so if you pray. Think about your talents and passions. They were given to you for a reason.

[NME]

Originally Posted by Born Again

I disagree. When someone is not following the path that God specifically gave to them, God has no problem giving them hell for it. If you feel empty, depressed, etc. that's usually a sign from God that you're not, well, following your given path.

If your lost about the path that you were given, God gives hints, more so if you pray. Think about your talents and passions. They were given to you for a reason.

Tell that to Job. He was put through hell on Earth.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Yet he didn't falter from his trust in God.
About your view of different paths, what evidence do you have that you are right about this?