A Question. Food for thought if you will.

silentburn333 · 09-29-2007, 03:19 PM

As those attracted to the Gothic lifestyle, how many of us find ourselves attracted to alternative religions? By this I mean religions outside of those we were raised in. If one of us has chosen to walk a different path, what path would that be, and how did you come to find it, or for it to find you? No judgements are to be made concerning individual choices as the universe is a big place and as the Bard said, "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Please, feel free to share your views and outlooks as well as your experiences on the subject.

KontanKarite · 09-29-2007, 05:36 PM

This... has been done before. The Atheists will bitch about not using logic and the ones who have spirituality will argue ad nausium about trying to defend what they feel is true to them with logic, which seems to fail.

On that note, I find Gnosticism is nice to play with. The idea that we are meant to be more than what we are and that all things that make life beautiful such as reason, art, philosophy, ect is a divine influence is nice.

I've also been accused of having very Thelemite reasonings.

d.Nox · 09-29-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

On that note, I find Gnosticism is nice to play with. The idea that we are meant to be more than what we are and that all things that make life beautiful such as reason, art, philosophy, ect is a divine influence is nice.

I've also been accused of having very Thelemite reasonings.

"Accused"? There's worse things than Thelema.

Regarding Gnosticism, Carl Jung's Gnostic homage Septem Sermones ad Mortuos is as close as any book has come to encapsulating my feelings on religion.

To answer the original question: I left the religion I was raised in a year and a half before ever hearing the word Goth (except in reference to barbarians and cathedrals). Since then, I've looked into...well, pretty well everything. Nothing has struck me as so true that I've been tempted to devote myself to it; but almost every religion, cult, or philosophy I've come across has contributed something to my understanding of the world and my place in it.

Mrs_Valo · 09-29-2007, 07:20 PM

Well I was raised Christian, and I still am. Im not necessarily attracted to alternative religions and I wouldn't ever change my religion. But I love to learn about other religions, reading about them ect.

Graveyard.Crow · 09-29-2007, 10:31 PM

I'm Pagan.
I was raised as a Christian but always had pagan beliefs, before I even knew the word. To me I was born this way, argue all you want, but it's a feeling that I can't remember not having.

LaBelleDameSansMerci · 09-29-2007, 10:53 PM

I was raised as atheist, but with a bit of catholicism every time I saw my grandparents. I like learning about religions, and I like the idea of polytheism (those gods/goddesses, with their faults and quirks, tend to be so much more exciting than a single, perfect being).
However, I consider myself to be Apatheist. I generally don't think about what, if any, god(s) I believe in. Art's more important to me.

Godslayer Jillian · 09-29-2007, 10:55 PM

You know, that is a thing that is seen a lot among goths. Virtually all of them have changed religions from the one they were raised with, and most have tried at least an unorthodox approach to one.
I myself am an atheist. But I saw a 'miracle' once (as in, something that I can't scientifically rationalize as it contradicted the laws of nature and yet it happened), so I leave a slight possibility that weird supernatural shit does happen, but I know that doesn't mean a deity exists anyway.
I try to go to miracle healings and exorcisms and haunted houses and parts in the desert dotted by devil worshipers (true story) to see if I can see another 'miracle' or something; have empirical evidence of it.
So, to encompass both my atheism with my letting empirical experience prove supernatural events if it can, I prefer to just call myself a nihilist:
God or no god, it all amounts to nothing.

Drake Dun · 09-30-2007, 06:33 AM

I think we have already established repeatedly that there is a trend toward what you might call non-standard orientations. On this board, for example, there are atheists, gnostic Christians, Satanists, wiccans, and such like in much greater number than there appear to be in the general public.

Drake

d.Nox · 09-30-2007, 08:14 AM

Quote:

God or no god, it all amounts to nothing.

Generations of Buddhist monks agree with you.

KontanKarite · 09-30-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.Nox

"Accused"? There's worse things than Thelema.

Regarding Gnosticism, Carl Jung's Gnostic homage Septem Sermones ad Mortuos is as close as any book has come to encapsulating my feelings on religion.

To answer the original question: I left the religion I was raised in a year and a half before ever hearing the word Goth (except in reference to barbarians and cathedrals). Since then, I've looked into...well, pretty well everything. Nothing has struck me as so true that I've been tempted to devote myself to it; but almost every religion, cult, or philosophy I've come across has contributed something to my understanding of the world and my place in it.

Oh no, don't misunderstand me. I have nothing against Thelema in the least bit. In fact, yes, "accused" is the wrong word to use. I was just saying that I've been "considered" to have Thelemite reasonings. Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

silentburn333 · 10-03-2007, 02:49 PM

So the question becomes, "why do many of us believe in such a wide variety of different systems or religions"? THose of you who posted a reply have indicated a myriad grouping of religous choices and backgrounds. What becomes interesting is what is there in these alternative religions, and in the Goth lifestyle itself, which draws us? While many of us take this lifestyle to a greater or lesser extent, we all seem to be seeking something, something lacking in our lives. What is it that drives us to seek such religions, such lifestyles, in order for us to become more whole? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Saddiction · 10-03-2007, 02:55 PM

Jillian, what is this 'miracle' you speak of?

gothicusmaximus · 10-03-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentburn333

So the question becomes, "why do many of us believe in such a wide variety of different systems or religions"? THose of you who posted a reply have indicated a myriad grouping of religous choices and backgrounds. What becomes interesting is what is there in these alternative religions, and in the Goth lifestyle itself, which draws us? While many of us take this lifestyle to a greater or lesser extent, we all seem to be seeking something, something lacking in our lives. What is it that drives us to seek such religions, such lifestyles, in order for us to become more whole? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Metaphysics and spiritual matters are subjects which I personally view to be within the of great relevance to the ethos of gothic culture, evident in our music, the literature to which we gravitate, et cetera, et cetera. I feel that any subculture which seems to demonstrate such a collective preoccupation with death will naturally ponder the question as to what happens after our lives on this earth have ended, and pursue the subsequent mysteries which any endeavor to answer the first naturally produces. People interested in goth likely just think more about spiritual matters than does the average person, who, in my experience, is almost inclined to robotically practice the religion of his or her family, without pausing to consider his or her real feelings in regard to the faith, out of comfortable habit, or fear of hell, or something.

I'm personally an atheist. Occam's razor all the way, baby.

Godslayer Jillian · 10-03-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saddiction

Jillian, what is this 'miracle' you speak of?

A 'miracle healer' did some weird shit at a christian camp once. The one thing he did that I can't rationalize is that he blew into the face of a middle aged woman and she passed out and next thing you know, she has a golden tooth filling. I had the chance of seeing her mouth when she was telling that guy her ailing and there was no golden filling. Painfully shallow as it might me to use t3h p0wer of Godz for something so menial, I don't really feel it was an act, but that's the best answer I can get.

Drake Dun · 10-03-2007, 08:32 PM

That sounds like an act. Like, really really a lot. It's precisely the sort of thing one would see David Copperfield or Penn and Teller do on stage.

Drake

Rizash · 10-04-2007, 03:24 AM

Only going to say this once... but its the truth so far as I can tell is stranger than fiction. Science, religion, spirituality, philosophy, and psychology are all the same... they all use common architecture, theories, and understandings.... No one human is smart enough to know exactly how this works or to prove it... but look deep enough into those things and you'll find countless links.... I just skimmed through the thread and saw bickering so I didnt read it much but no matter what you believe or what you think we're all part of something far greater than we could ever comprehend.... *grins* Thats not to say it cannot be experienced through dreams etc...

Lets put it this way... worst case scenario we die... we're nothing more than human, our energy is STILL part of these endless skies known as the universe and we're still a part of something so amazing we cant even comprehend its glory.

Other than that... *grins* we'll see....

crucifix · 10-04-2007, 08:29 AM

I am thinking of becoming a pagan, as of late.

StasisInDarkness · 10-04-2007, 09:47 AM

I have a fond penchant for the existentialism of Sartre and Kierkegaard, which is where I see myself in terms of philosophy...

In terms of religion, which is philosophy's close relative, I'd say I'm an atheist, that there is nothing more than what we ourselves make of this world.

Existentialism is always seen as depressing, as the realization that we are alone, but I somehow find this a comforting notion...

Steppenwolf · 10-04-2007, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizash

Science, religion, spirituality, philosophy, and psychology are all the same... they all use common architecture, theories, and understandings.... No one human is smart enough to know exactly how this works or to prove it...

I disagree .

'Scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning, the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.'

Every religion uses its own understanding of the world , which is (in all cases) highly subjective , and (mostly) bizarre understanding . You can't speak of reasoning ...

Philosophy was the beginning of science , but today seems not very useful to build computers , medical devices or anythig can be proven as ... Useful .

Psychology is ... well ... a double-sided razor . But (to me) the only worthy way to analize someone's mind is first to adapt the tool to the person you psychologize . And we all know that's not exactly what you find in a modern psychology . So ... who needs that?

Yes , we may be today unable to understand our world , but science will help us to understand (and use) the forces around us , and improve mankind's life .

So don't tell me simply "all are the same" ...

silentburn333 · 10-08-2007, 11:05 PM

I am not so much interested in what comes after we pass, but what and why we believe. My beliefs are very personal to me, I feel them in the deepest areas of my soul and I live by them as much as my skewed moral compass allows. And for many of us I know that this is the same. We all are guided by our own internal beliefs. What I am seeking is why we believe as we do. Be us Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Athiest, Gnostic, or other, why do we believe what we believe? For those of us who believe in some supreme being, why do we believe in this, can you feel your god/ess? If you are an atheist or extreme gnostic, why do you chose to not believe in something greater than yourself? Again I ask, WHY!????????????????!

d.Nox · 10-09-2007, 08:50 AM

Because!

Seek not to know the mysteries that lie hidden in the hearts of men--or goths. They're not nearly as interesting as you imagine.

Perhaps if you can tell us why you believe what you do, then the rest of us might be persuaded to cast our pearls before the swine of the internet. Or perhaps not.

wonderland · 10-09-2007, 10:39 AM

I was raised with traditional Norse beliefs (I hate the word pagan) strangely interwoven with a few odd bits of Christianity. I never got into the Christian side of things, even as a child (although I love Catholic ritual, purely from an aesthetic standpoint). As I've gotten older, I've ceased believing in conscious gods, but I still have a great love of the concepts and stories of them. I've always felt an extremely strong connection with the natural world, in general, and I find it comforting to call the peace I feel walking through forest Odin or to thank Thor for a particularly gorgeous storm. Not because I believe there are actual conscious beings creating these things, but because it makes it easier somehow to explain my fondness for the occurences themselves. I'm pretty sure none of this makes any sense outside of my head, but what religion does?

viscus · 10-09-2007, 10:51 AM

Could someone define "the goth lifestyle?"

delicti · 10-09-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentburn333

If you are an atheist or extreme gnostic, why do you chose to not believe in something greater than yourself? Again I ask, WHY!????????????????!

Because the idea of an afterlife is incredibly boring. This life is bad enough, and we don't have to deal with blasted glowing harps and "oh God" this and that for the end of time.

I'll take a good, quick burn through mortality any day.

Steppenwolf · 10-09-2007, 02:00 PM

Routine , routine ... Yes! And a bit routine ... That made a 90% of your beliefs . You were taken to the church and you grew up praying to your parent's god , and I guess some gen is responsible for your religious mania , or fear to the unknown , or laziness ...

Try to repeat everyday "There's no other god that the big spaguetti monster" . Visit a chinese restaurant every sunday . Talk about the spaguetti monster . Think about him and his greatness often . Don't forget to read the Old Holy Menu ... And keep this "way of life" a couple of decades ... Et voila!

That must be genetic ...