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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 01-02-2013, 04:25 PM   #301
Miss Absynthe
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
Saya, what makes you think a questionnaire is the only possible form of mental health screening? It could easily take the form of extended counciling / therapy. Maybe involving multiple professionals to make a determination. That's just one theoretical, it could be done in any number of ways.
Have you ever experienced therapy?

It is not fun - it takes things that you might have quite neatly packed away so that you can remain functional (and EVERYONE has those things, not just people with mental illness) and it unpacks them and examines them in often minute detail.

What you are suggesting here could actually have an inverse effect on people. Never mind that it begs the question of where the money would come from..


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Ape descendant - are you asking me if I think that someone suffering from a mental breakdown be considered not fit to be in possession of a firearm? Yes. Someone experiencing a mental breakdown from any number of triggers should not be in possession of a firearm.
You keep conflating the idea of mental illness with mental breakdown.

Stop it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:27 PM   #302
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You know? This is getting god damned tiresome. Jon isn't going to listen to your reasons, guys. He needs a real world example. Oh wait... you guys already supplied those several times over.

Jon just refuses to not discriminate against people with mental illnesses.

He's a smart guy. I don't think he misunderstands any of you, I think he's just a full blown asshole. Some people really ARE just assholes.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:30 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
A person suffering from Acute Stress Disorder, by way of one example, may suffer from symptoms of

a subjective sense of numbing, detachment, or absence of emotional responsiveness, A reduction in awareness of his or her surroundings, Derealization, Depersonalization, Dissociative amnesia

These are desirable traits in someone owning and operating firearms?
Hey.. this is a fun game.

Can you tell me what the following are symptoms of? Because I don't think you want this person owning a gun either:

Headache
Feeling irritable
Poor coordination
Poor concentration
Numbness in mouth and tongue
Nightmares
Disorientation
Confusion
Dizziness
"Feeling shaky"
Headaches
Irritability
Pounding heart; racing pulse
Pale skin
Sweating
Trembling
Weakness
Anxiety

I'm not cheating.. it's a real symptom list.

Do you want this person owning firearms?
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:35 PM   #304
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A paranoid delusion is the fixed, false belief that one is being harmed or persecuted by a particular person or group of people. Paranoid delusions are known technically as a “persecutory delusion."

You work at a firearms retailer. An individual suffering from paranoid delusions attempts to complete the purchase of a firearm from you, letting you know he needs it to protect himself from oh who cares, lets say MARTIANS.

You:
A) Complete the transaction. Another victory for social justice!
B) Refuse to sell a crazy person a gun. Fucking ableist.
Martians isn't a persecutory delusion.

"I have to protect my land from tyrants." might be a persecutory delusion.. or the second amendment of the constitution of the USA.

"I have to protect myself from being r@ped." might be a persecutory delusion.. or a reasonable response to living in a society where people are r@ped.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by AshleyO View Post
You know? This is getting god damned tiresome. Jon isn't going to listen to your reasons, guys. He needs a real world example. Oh wait... you guys already supplied those several times over.

Jon just refuses to not discriminate against people with mental illnesses.

He's a smart guy. I don't think he misunderstands any of you, I think he's just a full blown asshole. Some people really ARE just assholes.
I agree with you totally, and I really don't answer discrimination like he has shown to argue with people like him.

I answer the comments that he makes because of other people who might read his bullshit, see it go unchallenged and think that it's reasonable. Because I'm not going to let my silence perpetuate the bullshit, and because this is my argument to have - he's talking about taking my rights away.

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Oh wait... you guys already supplied those several times over.
This made me laugh tea through my nose.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:00 PM   #306
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No it's cool now, I'm in support of crazy people being able to get all the guns they want, whenever they want them.

I'm thinking about starting a PAC to do away with discriminating against people who had been deemed mental defective or involuntarily committed from owning firearms. Every person, with no regard for the state of their psychological health, should be able to buy as many guns as they want for whatever reason.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:00 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe View Post
[color="SeaGreen"]

I answer the comments that he makes because of other people who might read his bullshit, see it go unchallenged and think that it's reasonable. Because I'm not going to let my silence perpetuate the bullshit, and because this is my argument to have - he's talking about taking my rights away.
Yeah. I know. But haven't we gone over this like... for pages and pages now? I'd have to say that I think that perhaps the case is made. Obviously Jon isn't going to admit that he's wrong because he's an asshole that knows better but refuses to shut up just because.



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This made me laugh tea through my nose.
I'm glad I can make some people laugh.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:09 PM   #308
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No it's cool now, I'm in support of crazy people being able to get all the guns they want, whenever they want them.
Oh quit your belly achin'.


Quote:
I'm thinking about starting a PAC to do away with discriminating against people who had been deemed mental defective or involuntarily committed from owning firearms. Every person, with no regard for the state of their psychological health, should be able to buy as many guns as they want for whatever reason.
Hey. Petulant asshole. Gun ownership shouldn't be debated on the lines of people's MIs. Does mental healthcare need to be extended and made more readily available to everyone? Shit yes. Should it be framed on the auspice that people with MI will go senseless and just murder the shit out of people? Fuck no. The reason you're being an asshole is because you're framing gun ownership on the case of only certain people should be able to own guns when it's been shown to you SEVERAL GOD DAMNED LIGHTNING SHITTING TIMES that there have been killers who haven't shown any sign of mental illness.

If you really want to make a case, then it should be about disarming the public and the police and cutting military spending because survey says that cops probably shouldn't be trusted with their firearms with a cursory glance at their history with minority communities.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:12 PM   #309
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But the public and police may have members who suffer from mental illnesses, and they should not be deprived of their right to own firearms. The military, too. That's ableism, AshleyO. For shame. FOR SHAME.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:14 PM   #310
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Alright. That's game then. If that's the way you're gonna be then I guess just pout; ya sore loser.
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Rip off a million poor people and Wall street has no problems. " -Rebecca B
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:17 PM   #311
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I'm not pouting, I'm basking in the warm glow of social justice now that I've come to accept that my initial position of wanting to keep guns away from crazy people was wrong.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:21 PM   #312
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I'm not pouting, I'm basking in the warm glow of social justice now that I've come to accept that my initial position of wanting to keep guns away from crazy people was wrong.
Then shut up.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:22 PM   #313
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Then shut up.
Sure thing!
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:18 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe View Post
Hey.. this is a fun game.

Can you tell me what the following are symptoms of?
I call it Monday. Is it Monday?
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:38 PM   #315
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i call it monday. Is it monday?
Correct!!!

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Old 01-02-2013, 06:39 PM   #316
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Actually.. it was just a drop in blood sugar.

But we can't be letting those diabetics have guns, now.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:40 PM   #317
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No guns for cops either, obviously.

TW Sexual assault and stalking
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ion-warns.html
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:50 PM   #318
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No guns for cops either, obviously.

TW Sexual assault and stalking
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ion-warns.html
Police in the UK don't have guns.
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Couldn't rest, nah nigga I was stressed
Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


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Old 01-03-2013, 07:43 PM   #319
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I'm willing to bet abuse of police powers can occur in places other than the UK.
As so. TW R@pe, Sexual assault, violence
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1383333.html

PS. I was hoping Jon would get the heavy sarcasm and consider that the world is not black and white in terms of violence and 'sanity'. We need a sarcasm font.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:51 PM   #320
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I'm willing to bet abuse of police powers can occur in places other than the UK.
check and roger

Quote:
As so. TW R@pe, Sexual assault, violence
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1383333.html
I was just ranting about the shit in Ohio to Saya. I'm never going to calm down. -_-

Quote:
PS. I was hoping Jon would get the heavy sarcasm and consider that the world is not black and white. We need a sarcasm font.
yep

p.s. you should hang out with us next time I'm in St. John's lawl.
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Had me creepin' 'round corners, homie sleepin' in my vest.


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Old 01-03-2013, 07:56 PM   #321
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I'mma stop linking those even with TW attached, because it's just... the number of incidents I turned up, and the court sanctioned victim blaming in some. Nooo

Should have just told Jon that sane people can be violent/murderous assholes because that's humans for you, and left it at that.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:02 PM   #322
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Don't read the comments.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:10 PM   #323
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Comments? I see no comments, I'm too busy noping the fuck out of them.

Oh look, kittens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHrJDniAgis
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:01 PM   #324
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We need a sarcasm font.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:37 PM   #325
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In case anyone missed this:

I am Adam Lanza's Mother

Quote:
Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”
“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”
“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan -- they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.
We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.
At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.
Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.
The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”
“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”
His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”
That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”
“You know where we are going,” I replied.
“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”
I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”
Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork -- “Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…”
At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.
For days, my son insisted that I was lying -- that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”
By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.
On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”
And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.
I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am James Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”
I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise -- in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.
With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill -- Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011.
No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”
I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
(Originally published at The Anarchist Soccer Mom.)
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