What's wrong with Capitalism? - Page 7

Joker_in_the_Pack · 10-25-2009, 04:36 PM

I don't think it is the job of a good anarchist to have a bloody revolution. I think, as an anarchist and a pacifist, it is the job of the anarchist to both guide and speed up society's evolution towards an eventual anarchist society. It's not so much I'm in favor for making a new species of plant, if you will, I'm just going to help in the genetics by selective breeding and such. Follow me?

the-nihilist · 10-25-2009, 06:46 PM

Capitalism suffers from the same flaw as every other human-made system: humans.

viscus · 10-25-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-nihilist

Capitalism suffers from the same flaw as every other human-made system: humans.

How is that? Do you suppose humans are greedy, individualistic and exploitative by nature?

the-nihilist · 10-25-2009, 07:54 PM

Pretty much, yeah. Our only salvation is an advanced, highly pragmatic AI or a hive mind (collective consciousness). History has shown us that humans are unfit to govern ourselves.

the-nihilist · 10-25-2009, 08:11 PM

Nah, we'd find a way to fuck that up too. Let's face it, we're all doomed.

Alan · 10-25-2009, 08:22 PM

That's stupid.

Despanan · 10-25-2009, 09:00 PM

Humans are both greedy and charitable, individualist and collectivist, horrifyingly cruel, and insanely compassionate. You can't approach every single human in the same way. What works in the US isn't necessarly going to work in Argentina. What works for Jillian, is not going to work for me.

There are enough good, responsible, community minded individuals to make Anarchy a real possibility, and there are enought horrid, selfish assholes to make sure that it will never be viable, and depending on the day they might be different people.

It's fallacious to assume that every problem has the same solution.

Despanan · 10-25-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

The answer anarchists give is, why make them a dichotomy?
We deal with both at the same time. Simple as that.

[yoda]THAT, is why you fail.[/yoda]

Alan · 10-25-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despanan

Humans are both greedy and charitable, individualist and collectivist, horrifyingly cruel, and insanely compassionate. You can't approach every single human in the same way. What works in the US isn't necessarly going to work in Argentina. What works for Jillian, is not going to work for me.

AND YET you keep arguing against anarchy?
What works for one individual, for one group, for one community, might not work for the next, therefore they should all be subjected to ONE sole government?

viscus · 10-26-2009, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-nihilist

Pretty much, yeah. Our only salvation is an advanced, highly pragmatic AI or a hive mind (collective consciousness). History has shown us that humans are unfit to govern ourselves.

If it's true that humans are naturally greedy, individualistic, and exploitative, then wouldn't capitalism be a system born out of those qualities? Because you seem to imply the opposite: that capitalism was a perfect idea that got fucked up by human nature.

Either way, I don't understand where everyone's negative view of human nature came from.

Stormtrooper of Death · 10-26-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-nihilist

Pretty much, yeah. Our only salvation is an advanced, highly pragmatic AI or a hive mind (collective consciousness). History has shown us that humans are unfit to govern ourselves.

Being the crazy conspiracy theorist that I am:

The New World Order is already been working on that for many years, it's called an RFID chip. Within 15 years, everything will evolve around the chip. If you violate anything the NWO lays down, your chip will be shut off, and you will not be able to live, seeing as everything will revolve around the chip.

Me and my friends like to discuss this and the zombie apocalypse in great lengths in my friend's basement.

JCC · 10-26-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormtrooper of Death

Being the crazy conspiracy theorist that I am:

The New World Order is already been working on that for many years, it's called an RFID chip. Within 15 years, everything will evolve around the chip. If you violate anything the NWO lays down, your chip will be shut off, and you will not be able to live, seeing as everything will revolve around the chip.

Me and my friends like to discuss this and the zombie apocalypse in great lengths in my friend's basement.

You're a dumbass, RFID chips are used for tracking locations.

Despanan · 10-26-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

AND YET you keep arguing against anarchy?
What works for one individual, for one group, for one community, might not work for the next, therefore they should all be subjected to ONE sole government?

When did I ever argue for one sole government? I've argued against anarchism because I don't think it will work in any of the contexts I've seen up to this point.

While at this point I tend to think representational democracy coupled with a strong mixed economy is generally the best system for the world today, I didn't come close to arguing that it's the only option.

Despanan · 10-26-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscus

If it's true that humans are naturally greedy, individualistic, and exploitative, then wouldn't capitalism be a system born out of those qualities? Because you seem to imply the opposite: that capitalism was a perfect idea that got fucked up by human nature.

Either way, I don't understand where everyone's negative view of human nature came from.

On that note, wouldn't anarchism ALSO be born out of these qualities? Ya know, since humans came up with that idea too?

viscus · 10-26-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despanan

On that note, wouldn't anarchism ALSO be born out of these qualities? Ya know, since humans came up with that idea too?

You'd have to qualify anarchy, it means a few different things to different people.

I think if we as a culture recognized everyone's ability to self-manage and viewed the squirreling away of individual wealth as anti-social behavior, then we would have a system resembling syndicalism or participatory economics.

Despanan · 10-26-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscus

You'd have to qualify anarchy, it means a few different things to different people.

While I agree with the statement, I'm a little confused by what you're trying to say. I'm pointing out that BOTH systems come from people. It doesn't matter what anarchism or syndicationalism is, they're still human ideas.

viscus · 10-26-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despanan

While I agree with the statement, I'm a little confused by what you're trying to say. I'm pointing out that BOTH systems come from people. It doesn't matter what anarchism or syndicationalism is, they're still human ideas.

Well, yes, all political and economic systems come from people. The reason we have capitalism is because it somehow got into everyone's head that the ability to accrue large amounts of private wealth is a virtue, and that the average human being is stupid and lazy and requires an elite class to make him productive.

the-nihilist was implying that capitalism was a fine system fouled up by human nature. I'm saying that capitalism is a faulty system in and of itself, born of faulty assumptions about human nature.

vindicatedxjin · 10-26-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

You're a dumbass, RFID chips are used for tracking locations.

Yes for tracking locations of tons of things you buy (Gillete razors all contain them now) but they are also being used for transportation toll cards, identification badges, the blue american express credit cards, for tracking your pets, and even for humans........Conrad Chase offered implanted chips in his night clubs to identify VIP customers, the Mexican Attorney General's office implanted 18 of its staff members with the chip to control access to a secure data room, It is being used in tons of librarys to keep track of books, In Osaka, Japan they are now chipping children's clothing, back packs, and student IDs in a primary school, also there are being tests done for when customers enter a dressing room, the mirror reflects their image and also images of the apparel item being worn by celebrities on an interactive display. A webcam also projects an image of the consumer wearing the item on the website for everyone to see. This creates an interaction between the consumers inside the store and their social network outside the store. The technology in this system is an RFID interrogator antenna in the dressing room. Also....RFID tags are now being embedded into playing cards that are used for televised poker tournaments, so commentators know exactly what cards have been dealt to whom, as soon as the deal is complete. The Iraqi army uses an RFID security card that contains a biometric picture of the soldier. The picture in the chip must match the picture on the card to prevent forgery...

Apparently it is hoped that all bar codes will be replaced with this chip within the next 10 years or so...

I'm not necessarily scared about the chip...but I wouldn't be in the least bit suprised if it becomes super necessary to survive in the future.

gothicusmaximus · 10-26-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

Yes for tracking locations of tons of things you buy (Gillete razors all contain them now).

Hm. I thought my Gillette razors were about a microgram too heavy on the back end. Fuck you, NWO, I keep accidentally nicking myself.

JCC · 10-26-2009, 10:44 AM

I'll believe it when somebody that isn't you says it.

vindicatedxjin · 10-26-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

I'll believe it when somebody that isn't you says it.

Lol I don't care...stupid sexist douche.

JCC · 10-26-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

Lol I don't care...stupid sexist douche.

Sexist? Are you just pulling insults out of the air to throw at me?

vindicatedxjin · 10-26-2009, 12:11 PM

Yah pretty much.........

Despanan · 10-26-2009, 02:11 PM

Vind, you are a fucking moron if you believe any of that NWO shit. The sheer amount of effort that would go into a plan like that is astounding. There are far easier ways to conquer the world.

Nixon couldn't even cover up watergate, do you really think anything on the scale of what you are describing could actually be kept secret? Dream on.

the-nihilist · 10-26-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscus

wouldn't capitalism be a system born out of those qualities? Because you seem to imply the opposite: that capitalism was a perfect idea that got fucked up by human nature.
.

No, just another system we created born out of the desire to be more efficient that was fucked up by human nature.