What did you guys do after college?

[Alan]

I wanna hear some experiences for you guys who have already graduated and joined the labor market.

I'm asking this because my father has begun to, so to speak, given up on me, because he only judges me with the backdrop of his own experiences when he was my age.

Now, I want to tell you guys some background on me and why I'm asking this question; bear with me.
My father studied industrial engineering in the 70's, the time in Mexico where not only the ISI model still assured security in industry, but at the same time it began to lure American manufacturing to the border. So basically Juarez got both the benefits of protectionism and free trade at the same time for a short period of time. It was a given that they should study engineering for a stable job, even if they didn't end up as engineers.

Today in Juarez there are too many university graduates compared to jobs available, which obviously is true for America as well, but the scenario gets more poignant being next to you guys. I could earn a better salary working at a McDonalds in El Paso than being a high school teacher in Juarez.
There's even a social group called the 'ninis' (Ni estudian Ni trabajan). There's rich ninis and poor ninis. The rich ninis are not exactly wealthy but it's just those who can basically live off their parents' income without worrying about finding a job right now. I have a lot of friends who are rich ninis, and they have no problem getting together to get wasted on a tuesday and not get back home till friday just to prepare for the weekend. I hate that.
Still, right now I am also a rich nini in a sense. I have somewhat of a job, but in two months I have only earned about 100 bucks, so it should be considered more of an unpaid internship. I certainly went back to depending on my parents' income for surviving since they laid me off from my previous job back in October.

I can understand my father's frustration, but I don't agree that all that frustration should be pointed at me. I graduated in May of last year, found a job in July, we got new owners and the fuckers laid most of us off in October, and then in December I joined a previous professor from UTEP in creating a new alternative institute in the community.
I considered myself a social entrepreneur, knowing damn well I wasn't going to make much money out of it, but knowing that just like any new business the risks are as high as the benefits if it can stay afloat.
My father's business acumen respected my decision when I explained it from an entrepreneurial perspective, but now that it's been three months the freshness for him is fading and he's disappointed he hasn't seen many results. I could point out to him that he hasn't once seen the improvements of the institute as he hasn't visited it once, or point out how long it took for his business to start up and yet slowly but steadily it did, but I haven't mentioned it yet.

In the present as some of you know I have also applied to PhD programs, which at once give me a sense of direction and yet also hinder my engagement with the institute as I don't know if I'll be here after August. Three universities have already rejected me, and I'm waiting for response from three others. I don't know if it's a good thing that they're taking this long in saying if they've accepted me or not. Chicago U rejected me but did accept me but to a Masters, which I don't know if it's worth it nor if I can afford it to begin with, but at least it offers me one secure option for graduate school.

So after a year, here I am, having exhausted my savings around January, having to depend on my parents again, waiting for other institutions to decide my future for at least the next six months, and working at something I enjoy but receiving no financial reward out of it.
Again, I see why my father gets disappointed, but so do I, and I do not pretend it's something one can just point a finger and blame.

He grew up in just the perfect window to have stability assured to him.
We are just getting out of a recession and the jobs created are not being created in this area of the country.
I graduated with two majors at age 22 when most of my peers are still in college completing their one major.
I still have three universities that might accept me straight to a PhD right after college.
I may not have a source of income, but then I compare myself to the rest of my friends. As I said, most of my friends are still in college, having taken more than four years to finish their one major. Some went directly to a masters program, but that puts them more in debt and it's just because they do not see other options and hope that their masters will mean something in the future. My ex graduated as a social worker and can't find anything in her field, and a friend who was studying biochemistry to be a doctor had to drop out and now works in telemarketing so that she can hopefully pay for her education again in the near future. Another friend who was studying engineering (engineering, dad) also had to drop out and find a job at a sushi place and is asking me for help to find a second job.




So yes, this might have been better placed in the Whining section, but we go back to the purpose of this thread. I am 22 and as bleak as my future might be, I still believe that it's brighter than average.

I want to hear from those who are older about what you guys had to do when you were around my age. How much you had to struggle and how long it took to find some stability.
I know it's completely unrealistic for my father to believe I'd find a stable job that relates to my field when barely last year I was legally allowed to drink... or maybe it's NOT unrealistic, who knows, that's why I wanna hear your stories.

I need some perspective.

[Fruitbat]

It's been a very long time for me since I was 22. I did an administration retraining course when I was 20 (had been working in factories up til then), got a job working two days a week in the government, and I worked my ass off. Showed them I was keen to learn, and would do anything. They gave me another 2 days a week and eventually I got 5 days a week (when another person dropped a day a week).

I worked my way up from doing data entry and photocopying to managing databases, and writing computer programs on what is now called business intelligence - how the organization was managing it's workforce. I did everything, worked hard, got shitty money, but I was getting skills, scooping them up into my resume. When I left there 9 years later, I had been managing three databases, producing workload reports for senior managers and had been monitoring the workload of about 3,000 people around the state.

I moved states, doubled my salary and haven't looked back. My advice is to work you ass off, get skills volunteering or whatever you have to do to gain those skills that are going to help you move forward in your chosen career.

I didn't do a degree until I was 32 and then I worked part-time and full time during it (fuck working fulltime and studying fulltime).

Would you consider working in a university as a lecturer?

Have you applied to universities everywhere (including Australia/england/New Zealand?)

Don't let anyone stand in the way of your dream. No. One!

[Saya]

I got a yearish left and I'll be watching this thread for signs of hope, I'm kinda scared XD

[Solumina]

Okay first off this is going to be a little long but I’ll try to keep it concise while still giving you an accurate view of the past few years. Secondly I’m not going to give you advice, I’m just giving you my experience.

Both Jake and I went to school and studied subjects that we loved. I studied psychology, he studied history. We both had a good plan for what we wanted to do but both of those plans fell the fuck apart, mainly due to the current economic situation. I wanted to continue on and at least get a masters and then work as a guidance counselor (technically you only need an undergrad but there are so many people who have both the necessary undergrad and work experience that it isn't about to happen), ideally my family would have paid for that like they did my undergrad as they had saved and budgeted so that I would have a set amount to spend on school and since I went to a state school and lived in reasonably priced places I didn't spend all that had been promised but due to my father's death my mom was facing a bit of a financial crunch (especially as my older brother was really struggling and she was doing what she could to help him) and once I was out of school my therapy bills started to eat the hell out of my savings so I decided to put the money towards that instead of further education (plus my depression seriously hurt my grades to the point where they weren't good enough for any accelerated programs, or any public institution so I was looking at a really hefty bill that I just couldn't take on).

Jake got his degree in history, his plan was to teach high school for a while and then go back to further his degree, eventually to be a professor. Unfortunately many of the schools that don't require an advanced degree have been flooded with applicants, starting around his senior year (I was a little behind due to taking a total of two semesters off) when the job market started to tank, additionally the year after his graduation two of the schools in the area got smashed to bits by a tornado so the teachers who had been working there became priority hires, making it even more difficult to land a teaching job. Specific subjects still badly need teachers but history isn't one of them.

So we have both been working shit jobs, mostly in the service industry, until things improve. I will be the first to admit that most of the time I really do love my job but the pay is crap and sometimes people treat me as if I'm subhuman when they find out what I do. People can be cruel fuckers and even if they always thought of me as intelligent, likable, and all around awesome there is a chance that they will look down their nose at me and suddenly decide that I'm as dumb as can be just because I work in hospitality. The same is true for Jake. Actually for him I think it has been worse, at least I like my job (most of the time, although I do pretty much always hate the company, especially our CEO) and my job title sounds much more substantial than it is (activities coordinator does not sound like the job of every non-management person in the activities department). I also have a lot of former bosses who have told me that if I need something that they can always find a position for me, unfortunately those jobs would also necessitate moving to a much more expensive area because they are all from when I went home during breaks from school so as of yet we have been better off staying where we are, even when I was out of work for the better part of a year (although if that had gone on for another two or three months we would have completely depleted any savings and had to move to get back my old job then live with my mom until he could find a job up there).

Now we have been able to live fairly comfortably, at least now that both of us have stable jobs, but there are a lot of things that we would like to do that we simply can’t afford and we are pretty much spending everything that we earn so any changed to our finances would be pretty devastating (like say one of us getting out hours cut or getting a pet) so last year we decided that there was no way that we could make this work long term (kind of funny to think that we didn’t consider over two years as long term) and the job market wasn’t going to magically become awesome so Jake is joining the Navy. Since the job market is what it is they have their pick of applicants and have a fairly high GPA requirement for officers so Jake is enlisting (he would have qualified for an officer in the Army or the Marines but we weighed the options and the Navy is just a better fit, even enlisted, at least his degree lets him go in as an E-3). The Navy will do a couple of things for us: first off Jake’s salary will be more than both of us currently make, they will also be giving him a lot of training in a field that actually interests him and will be marketable outside of the Navy (he will essentially be a linguist), and the GI bill will give us money for school.


If you don't like your job then it can be absolutely soul crushing but you aren't likely to fall into a job you love that also pays well (and not being able to afford pretty basic stuff can also be pretty soul crushing) and the way to get an awesome job isn't clear cut, you just have to figure out how to make the best of your options and sometime you have to make some immediate sacrifices that will pay out in the long term.

[Versus]

I want to help, but I don't think my personal experience would be relevant. So maybe I can motivate you to stick with it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV63D...e_gdata_player

[Saya]

Oh, also, are you looking to live and work in Juarez in the long term? I know you said you applied to Toronto, and the job market isn't so bad up here, we did pretty okay in the recession.

EVERYONE MOVE HERE.

[Solumina]

You don't want me there, I get really whiny, obnoxious, and miserably if it is cold for long, I'm not sure I could survive a Canadian winter.

[Versus]

Because Saya is the epitome of "suck it up."

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Solumina

You don't want me there, I get really whiny, obnoxious, and miserably if it is cold for long, I'm not sure I could survive a Canadian winter.

Move to Vancouver or Victoria! I'm under the impression they get very little snow and nice weather.

[AshleyO]

If there's one thing I find perfectly unfair, it's for past generations to judge our generation from their perspective. You can't do that. Their time was different.

What I have seen is that people use jobs for leverage, not for commitment. You can't or at least you don't normally pick one job and become a 20 year man. That shit doesn't happen anymore and it's because job growth or moving up in a company is hard as fucking balls. You'd have to wait for some old fucker to die just to move up. So our generation does something different; we use job leverage. We work on one job for a year... 2 maybe and then jump from there to a better job with more benefits. Basically, I've noticed that my generation is a bit nomadic in that sense.

Not only that, but I think our generation has a value in work that perhaps the other generations didn't really have. Our parents raised us to find jobs we liked. We work because it's rewarding and do whatever makes you happy... blah blah blah. Well... this is kind of the result of that upbringing. We seek erotic work. It may not pay the bills, but I think our generation, if we're not exactly rich ninis, simply learns to focus on the social aspects of life and not exactly the material wealth.

Right now, I'm lucky. I've got about 2.5 years to go before I get my BA in theater tech. I mean think about that for just a second. I'm using my military benefits to get a free ride through college... for a trade that no one believes in. So why am I doing it? Why am I deliberately committing financial suicide by taking classes that no one thinks is marketable? It's because being poor or going without is something I'm fairly acclimated to. I'm in no means a rugged survivalist. There's certain levels of being poor that I'm sure I'd be straight fucked. But I think what I'm talking about most here is that our generation defines happiness as something a bit more vital than financial security.

I could have stayed in the military. I could have been a 20 year man. I didn't even have to go to college, really. Right now, I'd probably be a new e-6 had I stuck with it. But I'd be depressed. I'd be sad and the confines of that kind of security makes me a little nuts.

I don't have any advice to really give. My resume is possibly one of the most psychotic pieces of work ever. I can only say that I think the old guard generation understands wealth and success a bit differently than our generation. Our time is incredibly unique. Our options are incredibly limited and the older generations didn't have the kinds of road blocks and problems that we have today economically.

I hear we've gotten out of a recession. That jobs are up and people are working. That things have changed. Would anyone care to tell my friends who happen to be working 2 or 3 jobs just to get by that we're finally out of the woods?

[Versus]

Shit. My unit's senior nco made e-9 in 15 years and pulled two masters degrees out of his ass at the same time, if that's anything to verify what you just said.

[Fruitbat]

The job market in Australia is pretty good, plus we are warmer than Canada.

If you want a job that will let you travel anywhere - become a nurse.

Met a girl in the ER who was a nurse on a cruise ship in the US. Loads of Aussie folks train up to be nurses and then travel the world and get paid for it.

Ashley If you are doing a job you love, then you never work a day in your life. Money isn't everything.

The thing with jobs is that you go into them to gather skills, then you get out of them before the organization sucks the life out of you. Two years is about the limit.

When I got my first job, interest rates were 19% and no one could afford to work two days a week, except some fresh faced kid, who was so desperate to never work in a factory again, she would have done almost anything in an office.

[AshleyO]

Originally Posted by Versus

Shit. My unit's senior nco made e-9 in 15 years and pulled two masters degrees out of his ass at the same time, if that's anything to verify what you just said.

Well yes. That's certainly possible depending on your rate in the Navy.

As far as military police in the navy goes, getting up to e-5 was kind of a shoe in. There was no real path of resistance in that part. Getting e-6 would have been kinda hard. But to be fair, I was an e-4 when I got out in 06. If I hadn't put on the last crow by now, it would have been because I REALLY sucked at my job.

[Elystan]

postgrad12

[Despanan]

I graduated college with a BA in theatre in Dec. of 2006. At my father's request I ended up moving back in with my parents immediately after that. For the next few months I did odd-jobs around the house and a took a part-time position as a substitute teacher at the local elementary school. During this period It's important to note that I was terrified. I had a worthless degree, no useful skills (or so I thought) and no job prospects and was living in a bum-fuck town with no economy. My family started pushing me to work at a local company called "Bruss" or something...I had no idea what they did, and neither did my parents, and to this day I have no idea what they do. I was scared shitless.

I didn't apply. Instead I took to working towards my blackbelt and sending out a play that I had written in college to random theatres to see if they'd produce it. None of them did.

In March (I think it was March) I jumped in my car and drove to a theatre audition in St. Louis, where I totally expected to be completely passed over for all job possibilities...instead I got 3 job offers. Excited by this prospect, I informed my father of the new job on the horizon.

He listened and when I was done excitedly describing what would become my first job he looked me right in the eye and told me to join the navy. He said I didn't even have to join as an officer (If you have a degree you're supposed to start off as one) and that I could wave that and go-in as an enlisted.

I remember being shocked and hurt...I turned him down, and instead took the temporary seasonal job working for an outdoor drama for housing and $215 a week. I remember going back to my college for my graduation ceremony, then immediately afterwards jumping in the car to drive to this job 10 hours away.

From May to September I worked this job with a great deal of frustration and terror...I was moderately good at it, but had some difficulties getting along with management and my co-workers. After that I had some money saved and was unemployed/staying with friends for about a month, at which time I managed to get hired by a dinner theater on a year contract, doing a little bit of acting, and alot of telemarketing, linecooking, waiting, and cleaning bathrooms...I worked something like, 60-80 hours a week (with no benefits and no overtime) for what management assured me was "just above minimum wage" for like 8 months. I was encouraged to accept tips from the patrons, but was not allowed to keep any for myself, instead I was required to turn them in to management because "If we let you keep tips, we would not be able to pay you a salary".

Then a buddy of mine dropped dead in his sleep at age 25, just 5 days before my own 25th birthday.

I freaked out. I had some money saved, mostly what was left for me in my grandmother's will (she had passed away the year before). With that money, I left my job and hiked the Appalachian Trial from Maine to Georgia. While hiking through Pennsylvania I got an email from one of the theatres that I’d submitted my play to, they wanted to read it. I called home and had my Mom mail them a copy and continued north. After 5.5 months in the woods I summited Katahdin.

After the trail, I went home just as The Gas Crisis was tapering off and the Mortgage Crisis was about ready to hit. I remember my parents freaking out. I also remember not having the money to drive to the county where I was registered to vote. The theatre that had agreed to read my script rejected it, but somehow never bothered to send me a rejection letter.

At this point, I had decided to move to NYC. I was terrified of going there on my own so I applied for graduate school to nearly every college in the city, and then took my last thousand dollars and moved to Louisville, KY where I got a crappy apartment across the road from a pig slaughterhouse. Every morning I could smell this overpowering stench of burnt bacon and ass, and every evening I could hear the pigs crying from their boxcars. I’m frankly surprised I didn’t become a vegetarian right then and there.

I worked 2 jobs, first as a part-time telesalesman for the local regional theatre, and then also as a part-time host for a fine-dining restaurant. Later, I was fired from the hosting job, laid off from the telesales one, then rehired as a host by the same company at another restaurant, and rehired by a different company to do the same telesales job I had been laid off of. I also took a job leading Ghost Tours in downtown Louisville, had a massive fight with my best friend that almost left us going our separate ways, and lived in a bunch of different apartments with different roommates of varying levels of sanity, drug-abuse and violence.

It is also important to note that beginning with my move to Louisville my parents were also giving me $200 a month. After college they had offered to buy me a car as a graduation gift, but as I planned to move to NYC, I instead asked if they could give me what they’d be paying out in lease payments every month instead, so that I could save money.

I was rejected from all 5 graduate programs I had applied to. One was kind enough to send me a handwritten note with its rejection letter, which suggested I apply next year (when I did, I was rejected again.)

[CON'T]

[Despanan]

...However, after 9 months in Louisville, between the money my parents gave me, the 3-4 jobs I’d worked (plus 3-4 apartments I ended up crashing in), and the $125 I junked my hand-me-down car for when it exploded on the way to work, I found I had just over $5,000 in the bank. The Telesales company I worked for set me up with a part-time job at Carnegie Hall, so I moved to NYC, got a second part-time job working retail for a backpacking supply company, and a third part-time job doing more telesales for an off-Broadway theatre (which I was later fired from). I spent a month living on an ex-girlfriend’s couch while I looked for a place to live.

Because of how crazy real-estate is in Manhattan I was unable to secure an apartment without my parents signing a document guaranteeing my rent. They never paid a cent, but it was a knockdown, drag-out argument which took 3 weeks and lost me two potential apartments before they signed the paperwork. (My father eventually relented and told me that he’d sign it, but would never pay my landlord anything if I found myself unable to pay).

In December of that year my parents increased the amount they were giving me from $200 to $300 dollars a month as a Christmas gift. I was fired from one telesales job, laid off from my retail job (though not officially laid off, they just stopped giving me hours in the hopes that I would quit and they wouldn’t have to pay unemployment on me).

My Girlfriend had moved in with me, but was unable to secure a job for over 2 months, and also (unknown to us) was sick with Giardia and had no health insurance. She finally got a full-time job with Boarders books, which worked her insane hours, and paid only $8.50 an hour, with no benefits. I watched her get sicker and sicker and thinner and thinner. She started being unable to work the crazy hours her managers demanded, and was too fatigued from the illness to work and look for a better job.

By May, despite my best efforts, my bank accounts were nearly empty. However, I got lucky. My telesales manager put me up for a promotion and I got it. I was moved to management (of the same telesales campaign I had been previously fired from, LOLZ). I also had a friend move in with my Girlfriend and I, which made rent much more affordable, even though we were forced to spend over a year crammed into a tiny 1-bedroom apartment.

Eventually my g/f got so sick, her symptoms became extremely acute and we figured out what it was. I called in a favor with my family and got her a prescription that cured her Giardiasis. Between the increased management salary and the money my folks were giving me, She was able to quit her retail job (A few weeks before the company went bankrupt, and instead of paying their rent, creditors, and suppliers, lobbied congress to allow them to pay out millions in benefits to their executives) and devote her full time to finding a better job. This took over 3 months (during which I paid her bills), but eventually she was hired for a modest entry-level position which had a (somewhat) better salary and health insurance benefits.

Presently, I’m doing very well. I’m 28 years old, I work 3 jobs (4 if you count play writing, and 5 if you count the reviews I write) which include managing a telefundraising campaign, leading Ghost-tours, and working as a NYS certified wilderness guide. My plays are being produced left and right, I have been given a position as the playwright-in-residence at a small theatre company, may work is well-reviewed and I’m starting to bring in money from my writing alone. I moved into a bigger place that is thankfully NOT infested with bedbugs. My bills are paid, and hopefully soon I will have a literary agent (fingers crossed). Recently, I felt secure enough to tell my parents to stop giving me money.

I have worked very VERY hard to get to where I am (and will have to continue to do so if I want to get to where I want to be). However, there is no way that I would have been able to do any of this without family support. One of the reasons why I have taken such a hard-turn to the Left in recent years (I presently consider myself to be a Left-Anarchist with strong Anarcho-Communist sympathies) is the fact that we don’t have a social safety-net, and without a supportive family and a whole lot of luck, all the hard work in the world won’t get you where you need to be on its own. No one is completely autonomous and with the job market as volatile as it is, college degrees worth as little as they are (my 2000-Miler status is worth WAY more than my 4-year undergraduate degree) and employers who often behave in such a stupid, arbitrary, underhanded, and semi-legal/coercive manner towards both their customers and especially towards their employees, the people need to support each other, from friends, to family, to loved ones. Taking care of each other, and lifting each other up is really the only way anyone gets anywhere.

Ironically, this realization has lead to an increasingly strained relationship with my parents and right-leaning friends, without whom, none of what I’ve accomplished would have been possible. I often wonder if the current response from the establishment to the Occupy movement (the perception that we’re just whiny hipster babies in search of hand-outs) is a microcosm of the frustration some feel towards those they have no choice but to support because of the bad-behavior of Goldman Sachs and Bank of America.

So, TL;DR – That is what I did after college. That is why I Occupy Wall Street, and that is why you should Occupy Wall Street.

[Saya]

I'm glad you posted Desp, I was actually curious about what you did after college. And now I'm even more scared to move to the states if I do grad work there.

[HumanePain]

Now calm down folks. I have refrained from posting here because my experience matches Alan's dad rather than Alan, but I have to now say we should frame the context for these individual experiences within "Humanities" or "Liberal arts" graduates so as not to worry those of other disciplines. Physics Today magazine has 15 to 20 classified ads for physics or engineering graduates every month, and for post docs etc. My carpool buddy's son accepted a job before he finished his master's in molecular biology, and was still given the flexibility to go to Cornell for his doctorate so he could make money and finish school at the same time. For skills it needs the world is still generous.

[Saya]

Eh, I dunno. I read somewhere that those with arts degrees, at least with just a BA are more likely to go on to get a job related to what they studied, but with sciences you usually need more than a BS (hehe).

I have a friend who did engineering, and is now stuck on night shifts and wants to die. He has less of a social life now than when he was undergrad.

My brother is getting a trade in biomedical engineering though and is probably going to get hired straight of school, though, but I think he doesn't really want the job.

[Fruitbat]

Wow Desp after reading your story I'm really glad I live in Australia. Your poor GF having to suffer through Giardia while working. My MIL had it and she was wiped out for weeks (even with medication).

And the Australian system is completely different to the way things are in the US. Really, really glad I live in Australia

So what's life like if you don't get a degree? Is that just a series of poorer paying jobs? Less job options?

[Despanan]

Now calm down folks. I have refrained from posting here because my experience matches Alan's dad rather than Alan, but I have to now say we should frame the context for these individual experiences within "Humanities" or "Liberal arts" graduates so as not to worry those of other disciplines. Physics Today magazine has 15 to 20 classified ads for physics or engineering graduates every month, and for post docs etc. My carpool buddy's son accepted a job before he finished his master's in molecular biology, and was still given the flexibility to go to Cornell for his doctorate so he could make money and finish school at the same time. For skills it needs the world is still generous.

I like how HP just implied that my life's work is something the world doesn't need.

I also like how he put humanities in quotes, like it's not a legitimate subject of study.

Eat a dick you condescending geriatric fucktard. Not only does history judge a civilization by it's art but the BA is the new MBA.

You know what I learned in theatre school? Carpentry, Electrical engineering, Sewing, Cosmetology, Public speaking, critical-thinking, leadership, team-building, psychology, communications, the list goes on.

Why do you think I kept getting re-hired? Why do you think I was moved to management so quickly? Why do you think every single campaign I've worked on has become more efficient and shown a drastic increase in production and job-retention while dealing with the economic fallout from YOUR generation's fuck-ups?

Arts & Humanities are devalued in a capitalist market because the kind of people who go into them do it because it's not a job - it's a compulsion. We produce regardless of whether or not we're getting paid, we work regardless of who's watching. We work for the sake of working and that makes us easy to exploit. Would you work 80 hours a week for no overtime no benefits and pay that's "just above minimum wage?"

Don't you dare blame us for our passion, and don't minimize our skills or our invaluable contributions between a couple of quotes grandpa. I work 4 jobs and still have time to put my body, livelihood and freedom on the line to clean up your mess.

[Alan]

He didn't say they were not important, he just said the world does not find them useful, and that is true. The market has little use for such majors and it's a different world for those who majored because they cared about the demand for their major and not because it's their passion and will try to make ends meet after graduating.

[Despanan]

I know what he said, and I know the attitude behind it.

I probably shouldn't have put his balls in a vice over it, but hey I'm despanan and the NYPD just broke a window with my friend's head. I'm sure he didn't mean to offend, but I have dealt with that attitude all my life and I'm not about to abide even well-meaning expressions of it.

[AshleyO]

Theaterfag rage.

Feel it.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

So what's life like if you don't get a degree? Is that just a series of poorer paying jobs? Less job options?

I have not had trouble finding jobs that pay enough. Which is to say I've never had to work more then one job. The value of college has greatly diminished because it's so much more accessible, and a lot of people with a degree are on the same playing field as someone with a high school diploma or, in my case, a GED.