How does music make you goth?

Dante · 04-20-2004, 12:38 PM

Why is it that so many people become gothic just because they listen to some song that says something about being miserable or alone, or some other crap about being depressed. I mean why are you going to be gothic if a song tells you to. That is just wrong to those who are really depressed or angry.

You become gothic because of something that has happened in your life that really shook you up, like losing a parent, or a girlfriend or boyfriend, or having a disturbing and recurring dream. Music does not make you goth.

But if one of those has already happened, then you should listen to your music, since you won't kill yourself or anyone else because you are waiting for their next album to come out.

I put this topic in music, but it might go in another forum, if so, I am sure it will be moved. And no offense to anyone, this is just my opinion.

MorganScorpion · 04-20-2004, 03:45 PM

I don't think music makes me Goth. Thinking back to my list of favourite bands, only about a third of them can be classified as Goth. If I hated every single band that has been designated Goth over the years, I'd still be wearing black and silver, I'd still be reading the same books, and watching the same films.

My reasons would be different from yours, Dante. I could over complicate it and talk about how "The Addams Family" was one of my favourite programmes as a kid; or how I always preferred graveyards to parks; or how I had a crush on Christopher Lee when I was 9; but really the only reason is - because I like it.

Gypsy2222 · 04-20-2004, 04:25 PM

I've posted it several times in numerous places, and yet still... here comes the same type of question... read this, both of you..... I think it may answer several of your questions about the gothic subculture

Goth... What it is...

Always,
~The Gypsy~

Maimy · 04-20-2004, 06:11 PM

The thing about music is that its effect can be inexplicably powerful. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with allowing music to inform your style and even identity when you're still searching for one. It's no worse than literature or movies inspiring someone. There's "allowing a song to tell you what to do", but there is also "this lyric speaks to me" or "this guitarist's power really means something to me".

When I was a kid, everyone I knew was to some extent formed by the music they chose. Preppy kids listened to Huey Lewis or Duran Duran or maybe Springsteen. The heads listened to Pink Floyd in their attic rooms. New wavers dug The Romantics and Oingo Boingo. Punks listened to White Cross, and the metal maniacs went for Megadeth or Metallica. Ahhh, and the hippies tired us all out with incessant road trips to Dead shows ...

What's wrong with that, really? Sure, it can reach the point of lameness if the external sources start to dictate *everything*. But just USING the music (or the horror movies, or the gothic romances as the case may be) to start creating something you think is "you" ... is "different" from everything around you ... I don't know, I don't see the crime here.

I see the lameness, to be sure. I know a guy with a huge Crow tattoo who wears whiteface makeup to hang out in his own apartment. I knew Madonna Wannabes in the day. I find the patchouli-and-Birkenstocks thing to be a bit worn out - and don't even start me on the corporatization of Hot Topic's brand of "punk". But ... at the same time, do I care enough what other people choose as their inspiration to condemn it?

No.

I don't really see any point in judging anyone else's standards of stylishness.

Except for those friggin' Manson kids. Little satan-loving chowderheads.
[/facetiousness]

Gypsy2222 · 04-20-2004, 06:42 PM

I have no doubt as to the power of music (she is my first love after all), nor it's ability to affect a persons style... no doubt any persons mentality in general can be greatly affected by her... I know I was... and I have no doubt that the opposite is true as well mentality affecting music as both are intrinsicly tied through the soul... However to make the statement that "Music makes a person Goth"?... A bit drastic by any means isn't it? In making such a strong statement with out as many facts as there are available seems to require a strong statement in recourse... to my logic at least...

I also don't believe anyone was condemning anyone here... I know I wasn't... Perhaps I was a bit strong and even haughty... I do ask forgiveness if I seemed this way (in looking at my former post it must seem so), I was merely emotionally exhausted from my post in observational tangents... and like many, I have the failing of being cranky when I am exhausted... In truth I was merely attempting to educate with as little work on my part as possible.... The result lacked eloquence and I do appologize for that... I'll not be so lax in the future as I do not wish to appear in anyway uppity or the like.....

As you can probably tell from the flavorlessness of my words I am still emotionally exhausted but this is for an entirely different reason... So before I become a crotchety old man again I think I'll end this post.....

Appologeticly,
~The Gypsy~

Agwani · 04-20-2004, 06:55 PM

True, music doesn't make you a goth.

A person is only a goth if that's how they identify themselves, or other folks call him/her that.

Mind you, I find it hard to believe that any person would identify themselves as a goth *just* because of the music they listen to.

I'm inclined to think that they are either unable to properly put into words why they identify themselves as goths, or the goth thing is just a passing phase.

Either way, don't let it keep you up nights...

Maimy · 04-21-2004, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsy2222

to make the statement that "Music makes a person Goth"?

My response was really to Dante, not you petal. The first post here came off as an allegation that anyone might "become" goth based on some instruction from a song lyric, which seemed to me an incomplete definition of what might actually occur. It also seemed very judgemental of this "way" to Be Gothic. I thought that was a little short sighted, and remembered all the silly things (remember knee-high moccasin boots and the strangely-popular-for-about-a-year tie dyes? remember Big Hair?) people I've known, and people I've been, have done partially thanks to certain types of music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsy2222

I also don't believe anyone was condemning anyone here... I know I wasn't... Perhaps I was a bit strong and even haughty... I do ask forgiveness if I seemed this way (in looking at my former post it must seem so), I was merely emotionally exhausted from my post in observational tangents... and like many, I have the failing of being cranky when I am exhausted... In truth I was merely attempting to educate with as little work on my part as possible.... The result lacked eloquence and I do appologize for that... I'll not be so lax in the future as I do not wish to appear in anyway uppity or the like.....

Oh, darlin'! You NEVER come off as condemning, not to my mind. Haughty? Hey, only in the good ways. *Giggle* No apologies, no harm, and no foul m'kay?

Getting back to the silly things I have personally done in the name of music, often times there is a crush on the other side of someone's sudden fashion or musical conversion. Maybe boys (or girls - hey) get excited about the girl from Evanescence and think that music defines something and start off on what others define as The Wrong Foot in terms of Goth culture. The likelihood is that the newly "misguided" will either (a) learn more about their milieu, and grow and change within it, or (b) get bored and abandon the pretense. Few people remain "ignorant newbies" for very long - ignorant newbies don't really preserve too well. So why judge anyone's entre' into something, when they'll either "improve" (based on some ridiculously subjective standards) or fade away?

When I was 18, I enjoyed a first love who was a total acid freak. The mocc boots, the tie dyes, the rehab, the whole nine. I carried some of his style with me to college, where certain leanings went full tilt, and I became a bit of a tree-huggin', Neil-Young-listenin'-to hippie for a while.

When I was 19, I met a musician, and then spent a few years becoming a Rock and Roll Groupie. That lycra and the FMPs didn't wear themselves, and they wouldn't have worked on campus. It came with the context - specifically musical, obviously, thanks to his profession.

When I was 29 or so, I dated a guy who dug the Raiders and KISS and hip hop and, I am not making this up, beauty pageants and Fiona Apple. I actually caught myself noticing an incredible 85-yard run OF MY OWN VOLITION while going out with this guy. Dude. I [b]watched football[/]. I started listening to rap and hip hop. Hey, it opened up my options in a town where radio is slim pickin's.

Since I met kog3100, I've started listening to a lot of "his" music (more honestly, it's ours, but because I wouldn't have come up with it on my own, we can say I'm copying again). We go to goth clubs. A lot of what he's allowed me to explore in myself is not exactly new to my personality -but it's expanded a potential into fresh actuality, and we're both having fun with it. I was never "a goth" before we met, and even now, with all the bits of this subculture we share, I still feel a bit old - and a bit too attached to Missy Elliott and Southern Culture on the Skids, in addition to everything else - to imagine I could really start calling myself one now.

So maybe I'm riding someone's coattails in a place I don't really belong. Maybe my going to goth clubs and wanting to work with a goth photographer and going out in gothy-chick costumes is all misappropriation - or just something I adopted the 'wrong way'.

Thing is, I don't really care. I don't think most people DO, when they first "discover" any groove. We all just know what we like, and if we like it thanks to a band everyone else thinks is cheesy (I've seen some scathing comments about LaCuna Coil, a band I happen to enjoy, especially live) or a movie I think typifies something, but which embarrasses the larger population of a group (no, I don't want to wear Crow makeup, but I don't mind that movie frankly, and won't revile it because Everyone Else Does) ... well, so what?

I just read the first post in this thread as rather judging the "way" people become what they are. And my question would be ... How is your growth so superior? And, for that matter, why DOES it matter *how* someone makes a given choice? How is it anyone's business to judge someone else's process and context?

Giga · 04-21-2004, 06:13 AM

Frankly, I think that idea that, to be a goth, a person needs to go through a big misfortune in his/hers life is bullshit. Nothing more needs to be said about it.

Now to gypsy: can you at least use a lighter shade of purple? Its so damn annoying highlighting your text all the time

fallenangel666 · 04-21-2004, 08:57 AM

i think that to an extent, music plays a good part in just how goth you are. if you dress in black and shit and go around listening to fucking brittney spears (thst slut) then i should kick your ass for making us look bad!!! and being a fake. i dont think that if you listen to, say....cradle fo filth that you should be considered goth just on that fact that you listen to "devil music." music is a part of it yes, but the person is the most important aspect of what makes a person goth!

MrMaelstrom · 04-21-2004, 09:16 AM

Oh, I actually thought Gypsy had done everybody a favour when he posted the link below in the "Goth with a Sledgehammer" thread.

Dante, click the link, read the page AND THEN come back and tell us all about your goth definition, mkay?

http://www.blood-dance.net/goth/grant.html

Giga: regarding your difficulty to read Gypsy's posts, you can change the whole style of YOUR gothic.net page by clicking "PROFILE" on top of the page, and from then, go on to themes.

Thank you for calling.

Giga · 04-21-2004, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

Giga: regarding your difficulty to read Gypsy's posts, you can change the whole style of YOUR gothic.net page by clicking "PROFILE" on top of the page, and from then, go on to themes.

I did as you told me and had exacly one site-skin option to chose from.

Which kinda doesn't make it possibe to change the style of my own gothic.net page =P...

WolfMoon · 07-24-2004, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maimy

I carried some of his style with me to college, where certain leanings went full tilt, and I became a bit of a tree-huggin', Neil-Young-listenin'-to hippie for a while.

Say it isn't so!!!

:cry:

:wink:

SisterOfNight · 07-25-2004, 09:24 AM

Gothic/andGoth is in the heart and mind, not in the clothes you wear, the music you listen. But this is just my opinion.

Those things that mensioned on the blood-dance.net are realy makin sence to me.. as I have always been like that, writing poems, creating something, like darkness and love to go to museums and places like that. etc. Never really thought that I could be a gothic-person. :roll: But I love the music.

bexxle · 07-25-2004, 11:22 AM

I listen to all the varieties of music because it pleases me to do so. Also enjoy quite a few bands enough to buy CDs. I would be everything and nothing if changing myself according to what band I listen too.

Gothic is more personality and finding niche. Also grooming your hair and cleaning.

Drizzt · 08-07-2004, 06:32 PM

My appologies if this topic is rapidly becoming forgotten (and, in my opinion, rightfully so) but I absolutely had to express the level of enjoyment I got from reading the rant located at http://www.blood-dance.net/goth/grant.html. I mean, I have never honestly heard/read/etc anything that so vividly, and accurately, detailed the definition of goth. I had merely hoped, nay, dreamed, for something even relatively comparative to this when I posted my ancient topic asking what defines a goth (I have since forgotten the actual name of the topic, and have no desire to remember).

I don't consider myself a gothic, likely for many of the outlined reasons told in this site (such as stereotyping and skin-goths appearing to make "goth" out to be something that it isn't), but dang it, by the definition this site gave I sure as hell am goth. Not to say that I'm going to go around parading it, nor even consider myself a goth hence-forth, but it definately shed some light on the situation.

Anyway, to avoid further boredom on the part of anyone who has read up to this point, thank you Azhrarn for a simply beautiful display of knowledge, and thank you to MrMaelstrom and I believe Gypsy for bringing this site to our, or at least my, attention.

Moon_Creature · 08-07-2004, 07:25 PM

I think goth is a bunch of things. Its not just attitude (attitude is most important of course), but clothing and music as well. You can try and deny it, but music and dress IS an important part of goth. If someone has the right attitude, but dresses in mall clothes and listens to Britney Spears, are they really goth? I'm not saying they have to only listen to goth music, but they should at least listen to some of it and try to look a little bit sombre.

I think goth is an appreciation for the ALL darks things. Dark mindset, dark dress, dark music.

Zeade · 09-24-2004, 07:22 PM

i haven't the attention span to read what others have posted, so if i repeat someone else, i am deeply sorry

music truly doesn't make you "goth" just as it doesn't make you pop, jazz, classical, or punk

it may influence you for a while, but you'll change your music style soon enough and become something else... or you may just stay yourself no matter what music you listen to. i hardly listen to gothic music due to the fact i don't have access to any CDs. i just listen to music that appeals to me... like techno and even some pop. i'd rather listen to oldies music than some goth bands... so maybe if music is what makes a person goth, maybe i'm not "goth"

maybe i'm a hippie ^^

ok... i think i just rambled, but i know what i meant...

centurion · 09-25-2004, 11:44 PM

hmmmm.......
Possibly I`m one of these crazy individuals who thinks gothic culture has precious little to do with clothing or fashion???

No, sorry, wearing a corset and black lipstick doesn`t make someone a goth. Neither does being suicidal and depressed

goth is 50% lifestyle/ideology, which includes a fascination for supernatural phenomenon and favor towards the darkside(not pathetic self-destructing defeatism), and 50% music and art. Gothic rock IS a musical form, and highly important to the continuation of dark art.

Sorry, but if someone likes to dress up in halloween costumes, whine about how much life sucks, yet has no idea who Rozz Williams is, they ain`t goth.....

ice · 09-26-2004, 09:38 AM

From the depths of hell, this thread returns...

I banish thee with my little clicky button!

DIE THREAD! >:P

locked