Petition to expand the defintion of Hate Crime...

[thedoll]

To include those of alternative subcultures,

sign here

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/goth-hatecrimes/sign

[dark_dragon_of_ice]

Quick grab this flame shield.

[Lolly PopMuzik]

HELL. TO. THE. NAW.

And that's from one of the few active black members.

Where is the person who came up with this so that I may beat them until their whole family line hurts and candy comes out?

[CptSternn]

Didn't we just go through this very thread? Oh wait, we DID. So before anyone wastes their breath, just read this thread, and consider the topic closed.

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showthread.php?t=7751

[Delkaetre]

Actually... that thread's on something else entirely.
This thread- a petition to widen the definition of 'hate crime' in the UK to include crimes against those who look or dress differently. This widened definition wouldn't be used only to protect goths, but also to protect those with a visible deformity who may be targeted as a result, those who simply dress a bit differently, etc.
The thread you linked to- a defunct American charity.

Wrong sides of the pond, Sternn. And the guys behind the petition worded it pretty carefully to make sure that it wasn't a goth-specific thing, only that goths are an example. It came in the wake of Sophie Lancaster's death, so you should understand that there's an awful lot of angry and defensive sentiment behind it as well as the utterly genuine intention that the petition will hopefully either give more people protection against hate crimes, or make the government realise that damn near everyone can be a target for crimes because of a particular trait that puts them in a different category to their attackers, and thus Hate Crimes are a bit of a silly thing to have- surely everyone should have equal protection under law?

[CptSternn]

Wrong thread... link here...

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showthread.php?t=7158

The aforementioned thread was started by the same person so I got it mixed up there.

And since no one cared to search for this, I'll re-post my final thoughts on the thread...

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showpo...0&postcount=19

At the end of the day, goth is a choice, not something like race or religion which can be protected.

Every person beaten is a hate crime. If the kids were wearing glasses and a pocket protector, would we include geeks as a hate crime? If they were wearing tie-dyes would we add in hippies? If they were wearing ren-faire outfits, would we protect people in medieval garb as a hate crime?

What if they wore chicken suits and had gotten beaten up? We going to make Disneyland a protected sanctuary for people in cartoon suits?

Every crime is a hate crime. People get beaten for many reasons. Beating someone because of something they cannot change deserves to be a crime enforced but adding every little fashion change to hate crime laws doesn't help us.

It lessens the effect of real hate crime legislation. If everyone goes asking to be included in 'hate crime' laws, in the end they will just raise the penalties for all beatings because everyone wants to be listed as their own group.

In this case, the people beaten could have been wearing anything - when a gang of yobs is out drinking and taking drugs in the wee hours of the morning, they are pretty much going to beat anyone they come across they don't know. Even if I agreed that goths should be protected under hate crime laws, this case is not the one that should be used to set precedent. It was a crime of opportunity - the yobs didn't track down and beat goths just because they hate goths. They didn't stalk them, wait for opportunity, then attack. It was merely a crime of opportunity.

I think even trying to get this put into legislation is a bad idea. It makes goths look petty, and ignorant. It also makes real hate crimes look less important, considering we appear to want protection like minorities or foreign nationals, and we are normal people, average citizens, mostly from affluent areas, who merely choose to wear an outfit.

If fashion and style become the basis for hate crime legislation, we are all screwed.

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showpo...6&postcount=56

First off, there are many of us here who were old school gawth before many of you were born. I could spent a page dropping names and proving my point, but lets just say many of us have more connection to the scene than others.

That being said, this is not a contest of who is more goth. This is a simple issue of deciding how important you feel the goth subculture is.

What people are proposing here is we be put on the same level as jewish people who have their synagogues burned and covered in swastikas by skinheads, that we get equal protection like blacks who are hung for dating white women , like other minorities who really have had, and still have atrocities forced upon them in todays society.

Althought I'm sure the founders of the movement have nothing but good intentions, goths have by no means suffered as much as the groups above, or any other minoroties who have been targetted in such a manner.

If we try to compare our plight, which so far is limited to a single incident where a group of random yobs beat up a couple goths in the middle of the night, to these other groups, we will look very petty and small.

The people 'hate crime' legislation protects are people who have genuine concern for their safety. They have a history of people attacking, killing, and worse, in some cases genocide against their people merely because of their race, sexual orientation, or religion.

If we go around trying to compare ourselves as such, especially since the only documented incident so far is isolated and was just a random occurrence, well you can only imagine what critics will say, and what people who really need such legislation will say about us.

If anyone here thinks being goth is such a plight that we need to have legislation to protect us, that 'our people' have suffered as much as Blacks in America, jews in Germany, or any number of groups in other parts of the world who were killed for their beliefs, then you really need to get a grip on reality.

The day the fourth reich takes over and starts exterminating goths, or we see news reports of goths being dragged behind pick-up trucks for dating normal women, or if you ever walk outside to find a burning effigy in your front yard with GO HOME written on it, then we can start talking about legislation.

For now, all we have is a couple people beaten by yobs. It doesn't mean we are by any means an oppressed people who need special protection under the law.

[Delkaetre]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

... or make the government realise that damn near everyone can be a target for crimes because of a particular trait that puts them in a different category to their attackers, and thus Hate Crimes are a bit of a silly thing to have- surely everyone should have equal protection under law?

I feel I should repeat myself here, as it seems you didn't quite read that bit.
Which, I assure you, was one of the original intentions. Having spoken to Varney and frequenting the same forum as him, I am quite aware of the intentions behind the petition.

[KontanKarite]

I don't know about hate crimes, but what I can see is a system in place that can keep certain things like with-held services to certain individuals because they look different.

It would be so wonderful to see a world based on the actions and performance of a person and not what they look like be it skin color or choice of clothing.

Still must understand that a lot of people see "nuclear" family 1950's aesthetic as the "right" way to look and be. Quite frankly, that's just fucking boring. :-/

[cronodevir]

That such a thing as 'hate crimes' are preported to exist is funny.

Well, the 'crime' part.

I should be allowed to hate gays, jews, and aethists and christians all i want. And i should be allowed to erect billboards and host TV shows and ads stating i do and that its ok to be this way. -- Why? because i'm such a nice guy....

[cronodevir]

I wonder if it will be 50 or 100 years before not believing as the state does = death.