Voltaire... No. Just no. - Page 4

Albert Mond · 12-22-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Cogs

at least*

:]

Not a proper name or point of focus, but touché anyway.

KontanKarite · 12-22-2008, 04:06 PM

Alright, obviously something is misunderstood here.

So let me reiterate. I've reviewed what I said about Voltaire and quite honestly, in short it was, "Damn, Volty. I believe you can do better."

Nowhere have I said Voltaire himself was a shitty artist.

But, in the spirit of this thread, then sure, I'll point some things out. This has something to do with a piece of Voltaire's work being worked with with which I feel is a LACK LUSTER artist. Sure, he might be Voltaire's friend and all that madness, but from what I've gathered and from what I've come to understand, MCR is garbage. Even listening to some of the stuff they've made, I can understand why the consensus in the goth scene about MCR is that they're a poseur goth band.

Now as for the "shame" comment, that's not exactly what I implied. We've got to remember, tone and intention isn't always articulated very well on-line. But yes, I find someone like Voltaire, who has entertained me quite well, made me laugh, what have you, name it off, to be rather lame to work with someone like MCR. To me, Voltaire = good artist and MCR = really BAD artist. So the correlation of one of what I consider to be a good artist to work with a bad one to be a lame move.

I will agree with Voltaire though, goth rock is NOT a good money maker. But hey, that's why Voltaire is where he's at and why MCR is where they're at. MCR, from what I've heard, is simply pop-punk with spooky elements thrown in. I find that fairly lame. But I find almost all pop music to be deplorable.

So yes, I'll say it again, Voltaire I find to be a decent artist. As for MCR, I think they totally suck and think Voltaire could do better and he has. Now I can also understand him wanting to work with a friend, but Volty, your boy's music is shit. I could be wrong about your friend, but I can really only go on the arts presented. So when I see a good artist collaborating with a bad one, I conclude that the art in question will be bad. o_0

Mr. Filth · 12-22-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Shit, man! Why are you guys hating on Voltaire! Don't you know what he's done for us? The man went on FOX News and defended us in the heat the Columbine mess! Voltaire's a fucking hero. He doesn't deserve this.

Hero? Please. As far as I can tell he was cashing in on it for publicity.

Marilyn Manson went on O'Reily factor and Bowling for Columbine. I sure don't see anyone around here licking his dick.

I didn't say that he was in it for money either. I said he was in it for the made ready audience. He's unoriginal. As someone said earlier, he's like the Weird Al of Goth. Nothing in his music is inspired or original. If you aren't looking for inspired or original music and are just looking for a cheap laugh or two than I'm sure Voltaire is perfect for that.

I don't like Voltaire's music. End of story.

Saya · 12-22-2008, 04:34 PM

Manson's not goth though, he was defending himself and his music, although I did like what he said on Bowling For Columbine. I'm sure he said something cool on O'Reilly, but sweet jesus I hate that man, won't watch that show for anything in the world.

Mr. Filth · 12-22-2008, 04:37 PM

He defended goth culture and the music industry though.

I also despise O'Reily but its worth checking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucnA8ElvZQA

O'Reily keeps trying to push his buttons and manson just dusts it off and gives some of the most intelligent responses ever heard on the show.

Albert Mond · 12-22-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Filth

He defended goth culture and the music industry though.

I also despise O'Reily but its worth checking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucnA8ElvZQA

O'Reily keeps trying to push his buttons and manson just dusts it off and gives some of the most intelligent responses ever heard on the show.

Ever seen Frank Zappa's bit on Crossfire?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc

Mr. Filth · 12-22-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

Ever seen Frank Zappa's bit on Crossfire?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc

I have now! Good one.

Mr. Filth · 12-22-2008, 05:34 PM

Hahaha! I love the guy to his right, John Lofton(sp). "Mr. Zappa you say words aren't dangerous. Did you know HITLER used words!?" LOL

Corpsey · 12-22-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

So let me reiterate. I've reviewed what I said about Voltaire and quite honestly, in short it was, "Damn, Volty. I believe you can do better."

I agree, but try to put it into perspective. Say you and Desp were making a random film for shits and giggles and You were from some Death Rock band and Desp was a member of some lackluster pop-punk band (fuck knows which pop-punk band) that just fucked around on stage for the fun of it. If your friendship with Desp was deep enough (as I'm assuming it is) you wouldn't care about your friends musical career and just make the damn thing and enjoy doing so. Logically, this could be Voltaire and Geraurd(sp?)'s situation, and as he said, they're just making spooky shit for the fun of it as friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Filth

Hero? Please. As far as I can tell he was cashing in on it for publicity.

Would you like to ride the ship USSMakeshitup? Because thats what I see you doing there. On face value I'd say he was just clearing the damn mystery that the media was trying to confront at the time about "Gothic Murders". How morbid to cash into something like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire

I'm not super famous like those guys anyway. As far as I'm concerned I'm a guy who happens to be Goth, who happens to make music, who certain people happen to like and for that I consider myself extremely lucky.

Exactly, and I doubt if you were anything less you wouldn't be bothered enough to post here.

Keep it up.

To solve your quoting issues, try doing this; [Quote=JoeBloggs (bracket) Copy & Paste [/Quote (bracket).

Raptor · 12-22-2008, 05:51 PM

I think it's cool he showed up here and still talks to people. I can't recall anyone else doing that except Darlin Grave.

Mr. Filth · 12-22-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corpsey

Would you like to ride the ship USSMakeshitup? Because thats what I see you doing there. On face value I'd say he was just clearing the damn mystery that the media was trying to confront at the time about "Gothic Murders". How morbid to cash into something like that.

"And here's Voltaire who has written a book entitled "What is Goth?". Lets ask him some questions."

How is that not a commercial? Maybe I'm being unfair, but I'm hardly making shit up.

KontanKarite · 12-22-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corpsey

I agree, but try to put it into perspective. Say you and Desp were making a random film for shits and giggles and You were from some Death Rock band and Desp was a member of some lackluster pop-punk band (fuck knows which pop-punk band) that just fucked around on stage for the fun of it. If your friendship with Desp was deep enough (as I'm assuming it is) you wouldn't care about your friends musical career and just make the damn thing and enjoy doing so. Logically, this could be Voltaire and Geraurd(sp?)'s situation, and as he said, they're just making spooky shit for the fun of it as friends.

I DO have friends that I don't share artistic aesthetics with. Desp, I would collaborate with and have. But there are some that I would not do such with but am still very very close to.

I'm not going to deny that I may have some degree of assholery about me. We all do. But your point isn't very applicable to me. Good try though. I'm not going to deny your logic.

Corpsey · 12-22-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Filth

"And here's Voltaire who has written a book entitled "What is Goth?". Lets ask him some questions."

How is that not a commercial? Maybe I'm being unfair, but I'm hardly making shit up.

Hmmm a valid point. I always saw it as a way of giving some kind of reference as to what Voltaire had achieved in the 'gothic' industry to the viewers who were ignorant of 'what is Goth' but Its still subtle advertising I suppose.

Then again, if they hadn't mentioned his book then it could easily have come across as "And here's Voltaire who is dressed in black and has black hair, lets ask him a few questions".

KontanKarite · 12-22-2008, 06:07 PM

Addendum---

To further that, I wouldn't be crazy enough to attempt to sell "goth" products and art unless it was explicitly goth rock or deathrock.

I actually don't see Voltaire's stuff as goth, not even his music. Then again, I don't really think he's a bad artist because he isn't goth. I wont deny that the man is likely a fan of Andi Sexgang and that's pretty much as far as I've ever defined a goth. One who's a fan of the genre. But Voltaire's music being goth rock? Hardly.

Underwater Ophelia · 12-22-2008, 06:11 PM

VOLTAIRE!!!!
Once again, I will reduce myself to a giggly fangirl.

I'M LISTENING TO YOUR MUSIC RIGHT NOW.

Guys. It's good.
Funny or not, the music itself is quality.

KontanKarite · 12-22-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

VOLTAIRE!!!!
Once again, I will reduce myself to a giggly fangirl.

I'M LISTENING TO YOUR MUSIC RIGHT NOW.

Guys. It's good.
Funny or not, the music itself is quality.

I don't think anyone is contesting that, save for one dude.

Corpsey · 12-22-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I'm not going to deny that I may have some degree of assholery about me. We all do. But your point isn't very applicable to me. Good try though. I'm not going to deny your logic.

Nuh-huh!!! Fuck you, Asshole!!! (Quote)

Some shit doesn't apply to everyone; for everything else, there's MasterCard.

Underwater Ophelia · 12-22-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I don't think anyone is contesting that, save for one dude.

Well...ok.
I'm sorry.

I really like Voltaire. This thread has made me get stupid.

Albert Mond · 12-22-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Filth

"And here's Voltaire who has written a book entitled "What is Goth?". Lets ask him some questions."

How is that not a commercial? Maybe I'm being unfair, but I'm hardly making shit up.

This guy wrote a book on the definition of 'Goth'? The guy who misspelled "Eldritch" twice?

Mr. Filth · 12-22-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

This guy wrote a book on the definition of 'Goth'? The guy who misspelled "Eldritch" twice?

Exactly. Easy money.

And I disagree with Ophelia. His music is dull and could fit with ANY genre. We're talking commercial jingle quality musicianship here.

Maybe I sound like a dick so I'll repeat. For what he does, it's good. I'm just not into it.

Corpsey · 12-22-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I actually don't see Voltaire's stuff as goth, not even his music. Then again, I don't really think he's a bad artist because he isn't goth. I wont deny that the man is likely a fan of Andi Sexgang and that's pretty much as far as I've ever defined a goth. One who's a fan of the genre. But Voltaire's music being goth rock? Hardly.

It's not Goth Rock but I would consider his music to be a part of what is in the 'gothic' genre. Shit, Cruxshadows aren't goth rock but they're still a Gothic band. Same applies to Switchblade Symphony, KMFDM, The Birthday Massacre, Auto-Mod, Collide etc that people seem to have an affinity towards if they are fans of Goth Rock. I remember Jillian making such a quote worded a little bit better but It'll be a year+ back in the music thread.

Mr. Filth · 12-22-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corpsey

It's not Goth Rock but I would consider his music to be a part of what is in the 'gothic' genre. Shit, Cruxshadows aren't goth rock but they're still a Gothic band. Same applies to Switchblade Symphony, KMFDM, The Birthday Massacre, Auto-Mod, Collide etc that people seem to have an affinity towards if they are fans of Goth Rock. I remember Jillian making such a quote worded a little bit better but It'll be a year+ back in the music thread.

Though I'm a huge fan of most of these bands, none of them are goth and Kontan is about to agree with me.

What do you mean 'Gothic band'? Are they into architecture?

Corpsey · 12-22-2008, 06:37 PM

Re-read the whole quote again.

*edit*
Fuck you, asshole! Editing what you wrote!

Mr. Filth · 12-22-2008, 06:51 PM

Fuck you, asshole!

Corpsey · 12-22-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Filth

What do you mean 'Gothic band'? Are they into architecture?

No, but there is something about them which coins them to the phrase "Goth". They're all in their separate genres(darkwave/Industrial etc), but like I said, if someone likes "Goth Rock' then they're likely to have an affinity towards certain bands who are in a separate music genre but there is something about these bands which makes 'Goths' like them. They're part of the style. I'll now hand the floor to Godslayer Jillian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

In two words, I believe I can finally tell what Goth is and everyone can be happy with it.

Q: What is goth?
A: A style.

There. It's undeniable. It's simplicity fuckin' owns. It implies it's a musical style, and still it leaves room for the aesthetic. It takes consideration of the fact that there must be a certain je ne sais quoi behind the music, because the styles between The Cruxshadows, Bauhaus, and Voltaire are too different for it just to be a "music genre".
If someone asks "Can't you elaborate?" You say "Not really, no. Wanna know what's goth? There's the definition. Wanna understand what's goth? Listen to the music (which is markedly defined already), go to a gothic club, be sure it has at least two guys with deathawks and five guys with fishnets so you know they're not ripping you off with an EBM dancefloor or a wannabe vampire grotto, and you'll understand what's goth."