State Laws/ Propositions

Fae-wolf · 10-29-2008, 07:39 PM

Election time is coming up. And, I was wondering what sort of propositions you guys have in each of your states that your very much against or for?
For example, here in California, the two big ones that me and my pals are going against are Prop 4 and Prop 8.

Prop 8: A marriage is between a man and a woman.
We just recently legalized Gay marriage in California and people still don’t like it.

Prop 4: If you’re a minor, your parents have to know if you got an abortion.

This one is a tough one because I think it needs to be better written.

Anywho, do any your states have any similar laws they want to get pass or are there any certain ones you really life or are for?

x-deviant-x · 11-04-2008, 08:32 PM

here in FL we're facing Amendment 2, which is the equivalence of CA's Prop 8. It won last time, but this time its too uncertain.

viscus · 11-04-2008, 08:49 PM

Though I'm now living in Japan, I'm a registered California voter and have a lot of hope for Prop. 1A (high-speed rail). I'm getting prepared to be disappointed, however.

viscus · 11-05-2008, 01:24 AM

Wow, looks like Prop 1A's gonna pass by a hair. Woo-hoo! LA to SF in 2 1/2 hours baby!!

I'm disheartened to see that Prop 8 will also pass, however. People can't get over their stupid cognitive dissonance about a man and a man or a woman and a woman getting married. That's the one fat fly in my tapenade for this election.

ionic_angel · 11-05-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fae-wolf

We just recently legalized Gay marriage in California and people still don’t like it.

To be completely honest, "we" didn't legalize anything. The majority of Californians have always opposed gay marriage. The "legalization" by a court is probably what helped swing prop. 8 over the top, since a lot of voters don't like getting overruled.

But not all the results are in yet. Still, I voted for it, so I'm pleased to see it passing so far.

Albert Mond · 11-05-2008, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ionic_angel

To be completely honest, "we" didn't legalize anything. The majority of Californians have always opposed gay marriage. The "legalization" by a court is probably what helped swing prop. 8 over the top, since a lot of voters don't like getting overruled.

But not all the results are in yet. Still, I voted for it, so I'm pleased to see it passing so far.

That's always how it happens. First the fags come in and THEN they want to legalize their perverted activities! When will it ever stop?!

ionic_angel · 11-05-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

That's always how it happens. First the fags come in and THEN they want to legalize their perverted activities! When will it ever stop?!

Even as sarcasm, that's rather pathetic. My point is that the courts were the ones who created this situation, so its not exactly surprising that the people are reversing them via votes.

Albert Mond · 11-05-2008, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ionic_angel

Even as sarcasm, that's rather pathetic. My point is that the courts were the ones who created this situation, so its not exactly surprising that the people are reversing them via votes.

So are you saying you DON'T agree with Prop 8 but just voted for it?

viscus · 11-05-2008, 02:43 AM

A curb on benign personal freedom being written into the supreme law of California.

The more I think about it, the more it sickens me.

ionic_angel · 11-05-2008, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

So are you saying you DON'T agree with Prop 8 but just voted for it?

I do agree with prop 8., albeit not for all of the reasons of its backers. However, I'm not arguing for or against that. I'm just noting that if the California Supreme court hadn't reversed prop 22 like it did, a proposition to legalize gay marriage would probably have passed eventually. Now this ban is written permanently into the state constitution, and a lot of voter's minds are now set, because voters don't like being told what to do by courts.

In other words, they rushed it.

ionic_angel · 11-05-2008, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscus

A curb on benign personal freedom being written into the supreme law of California.

The more I think about it, the more it sickens me.

I know. It makes me very happy to hear that. :-)

...what? You get your schadenfreude off of taxing rich people and corporations, I get it off of denying what you see as basic rights. Fair is fair, no?

And think of all the trees we'll save by not needing all those extra marriage licenses! Prop 8 - good for the environment!

I really gotta see about getting a proposition banning romantic relationships altogether passed. Then I'd really have fun.

viscus · 11-05-2008, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ionic_angel

...what? You get your schadenfreude off of taxing rich people and corporations, I get it off of denying what you see as basic rights. Fair is fair, no?

Personally, I don't get schadenfreude off of taxing rich people and corporations. But regardless, that's a totally false comparison.

Albert Mond · 11-05-2008, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscus

Personally, I don't get schadenfreude off of taxing rich people and corporations. But regardless, that's a totally false comparison.

I figured it was sarcasm. I mean, what country does she live in where corporations and rich people aren't taxed?
And, yes. It's a false comparison.

x-deviant-x · 11-05-2008, 10:14 AM

It has to be changed on a federal level, so that states can't choose whether they want it or not. Clinton fucked this up for us, by allowing each state to decide on it. And now, as I see it, HRC and other groups like it are wasting their time and money trying to fight each state individually instead of going straight to the federal government. This of course has also been tried and keeps failing, but it seems like it would still be easier in the long run, instead of trying to battle 50 state governments. I only know of one group that's trying to get enough support to go federally with it, and even HRC mostly ignores them at this point. (I can't even remember their name, but I have their card somewhere).

The fucked up thing is that more women than men have voted against gay marriage, acording to the stats I was reading last night in CA and FL.

ionic_angel · 11-05-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

I figured it was sarcasm. I mean, what country does she live in where corporations and rich people aren't taxed?
And, yes. It's a false comparison.

It was sarcasm.

JCC · 11-05-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ionic_angel

I do agree with prop 8., albeit not for all of the reasons of its backers.

Unless you have a spectacularly well-reasoned argument as to why this is okay, you're a cunt.

Underwater Ophelia · 11-05-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

The fucked up thing is that more women than men have voted against gay marriage, acording to the stats I was reading last night in CA and FL.

How is that fucked up?

JCC · 11-05-2008, 10:58 AM

Because all women love gay men!

x-deviant-x · 11-05-2008, 12:02 PM

history seems to show that women, as a whole, are more sympathetic to gay causes

JCC · 11-05-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

history seems to show that women, as a whole, are more sympathetic to gay causes

What history?

Underwater Ophelia · 11-05-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

history seems to show that women, as a whole, are more sympathetic to gay causes

And now they're not.
How is a change of opinion fucked up?

x-deviant-x · 11-05-2008, 02:26 PM

History of the gay rights movements in the US. It's been going on since at least the 60's if not earlier. On average more men are against gay rights than women, or so it seems. Which is why it seems fucked up to me that more women than men voted against prop 8 in CA and amendment 2 in FL. What makes CA's issues worse is that they were already getting married in CA. Now what the hell is going to happen? It will be interesting to see how we get screwed yet again.

Albert Mond · 11-05-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

And now they're not.
How is a change of opinion fucked up?

Look at it this way:
Imagine if gay sex was the only way to reproduce and it was illegal for straight couples to marry. Imagine that you're straight (like that would ever happen), and Lesbians have been working with your people for a long time to legalize Straight Marriage. Then, the Gay Religious Right gets to them and the number of Lesbians supporting your people drops as time goes by to make way for little "Straight Sex is wrong" twits.

Underwater Ophelia · 11-05-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

Look at it this way:
Imagine if gay sex was the only way to reproduce and it was illegal for straight couples to marry. Imagine that you're straight (like that would ever happen), and Lesbians have been working with your people for a long time to legalize Straight Marriage. Then, the Gay Religious Right gets to them and the number of Lesbians supporting your people drops as time goes by to make way for little "Straight Sex is wrong" twits.

I don't need your idiotic attempts to help me understand.

x-deviant-x · 11-05-2008, 02:40 PM

I wish people would stop relating it to sex, yet I guess that is inevitable. It is about who you choose to spend your life with, share your finances, home and benefits with, raise children with, etc. Regardless of gender. It really has nothing to do with sex, but that's all that straight people can see in it, and that's fucking pathetic.