Meat.

[Bat Attack]

Originally Posted by JCC

Free range is a fucking scam.

I dunno, it might possibly be sometimes, but it's definately not all the time, because I've seen some free range farms, and there's a huge difference. It's still better to be possibly eating free range meat than eating meat that has definately been treated badly. It's a start. Once everyones eating free range, the scams WITHIN the free range industry will be targeted. But at the moment there's more of a chance that the meat people are eating has been treated badly, so people are concentrating on targeting that, if you get what I mean.

[JCC]

Free range means bigger cages and HAVING an outdoor pen.

Less than half of those chickens will ever see the light of day. They're still cramped into ridiculously small and dirty conditions, they still get diseases and their beaks are still sawn off. The free range industry relies on the naivety of people like you to fund it, thinking they're being compassionate.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by JCC

Free range is a fucking scam.

How so? I mean I get that there are some people/companies that will do only the bare minimum of what is required for something to be labeled as free range and the animals aren't kept in the absolute best conditions but how is it a scam?

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by JCC

Free range means bigger cages and HAVING an outdoor pen.

Less than half of those chickens will ever see the light of day. They're still cramped into ridiculously small and dirty conditions, they still get diseases and their beaks are still sawn off. The free range industry relies on the naivety of people like you to fund it, thinking they're being compassionate.

You act as though this is the case everywhere, it isn't. All that someone has to do is look into a company to find out what conditions the animals are kept in, it isn't that hard. If you are really concerned with making sure that animals are kept in wonderful, healthy conditions then buy local and actually visit the farms.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Solumina

How so? I mean I get that there are some people/companies that will do only the bare minimum of what is required for something to be labeled as free range and the animals aren't kept in the absolute best conditions but how is it a scam?

The conditions aren't drastically dissimilar to battery farming in many 'free range' farms, yet the intensive marketing as this idyllic utopia for chickens, rolling about in the grass and frolicking with their little chicken friends shifts units like you wouldn't believe.

[Bat Attack]

Originally Posted by Solumina

You act as though this is the case everywhere, it isn't.

Exactly what I mean. It may be the case in half of the free range farms, but not ALL (and I'm certain of that, because as I said I've seen some). So atleast there are some farms in which free range is properly enforced and it's a start, it's better than all farms being like the ones in the video.

[Solumina]

It isn't as though the label itself is misleading, just because people don't bother to look and see that that isn't the best certification out there doesn't mean that free range is a scam. It sounds as though you have a problem with people being led to think that free range is the same as pasture raised when in fact those are two different things.

[honeythorn]

Originally Posted by JCC

Free range is a fucking scam.

Not if you do it yourself. An average back garden can easily support 3-4 chickens, 4 bantams, or even a few quail if you want eggs alone. All you need is a coop and a reasonably sized secure mesh enclosure for them to go outside and scratch around as fowl generally tend to do.

I know that here ( as in the Black Country UK ) you have to clip the wings of chickens, geese, ducks ect, and I am pretty sure most councils won't allow a cockrel on any sort of estate ( like mine ) but other than that you're ok.

Not sure about anywhere else, but all you'd have to do is ask.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

Not if you do it yourself. An average back garden can easily support 3-4 chickens, 4 bantams, or even a few quail if you want eggs alone. All you need is a coop and a reasonably sized secure mesh enclosure for them to go outside and scratch around as fowl generally tend to do.

I know that here ( as in the Black Country UK ) you have to clip the wings of chickens, geese, ducks ect, and I am pretty sure most councils won't allow a cockrel on any sort of estate ( like mine ) but other than that you're ok.

Not sure about anywhere else, but all you'd have to do is ask.

I fully intend to do this one day. Y'know, when I get my own digs and actually HAVE a backyard.

[Bat Attack]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

Not if you do it yourself. An average back garden can easily support 3-4 chickens, 4 bantams, or even a few quail if you want eggs alone. All you need is a coop and a reasonably sized secure mesh enclosure for them to go outside and scratch around as fowl generally tend to do.

I know that here ( as in the Black Country UK ) you have to clip the wings of chickens, geese, ducks ect, and I am pretty sure most councils won't allow a cockrel on any sort of estate ( like mine ) but other than that you're ok.

Not sure about anywhere else, but all you'd have to do is ask.

That's a good point, but as you said that's just for eggs. So what about the meat?

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Bat Attack

That's a good point, but as you said that's just for eggs. So what about the meat?

Eat a chicken now and then....?

[Solumina]

If you are really concerned with where you get your meat and the conditions in which it was raised then look for animal welfare approved, that is about as strict a label as there is and also quite hard to get, other than that chances are that you can find a local source and be sure to know exactly where your food is coming from.

[Bat Attack]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Eat a chicken now and then....?

Most people would actually be unable to eat their own chickens because they would've become attached to them, even if they tried not too.

[Solumina]

Based on personal experience I am going to have to disagree with you. I grew up in the country and a lot of people had chickens that were primarily used to produce eggs and they had no problem eating one every now and then.

[Bat Attack]

Originally Posted by Solumina

Based on personal experience I am going to have to disagree with you. I grew up in the country and a lot of people had chickens that were primarily used to produce eggs and they had no problem eating one every now and then.

Hmmm ok, but it depends, maybe it's because they were used to it. People new to "chicken farming" would find it harder. Yes as time goes on however, they will probably get used to it I suppose. But from what I'VE SEEN so far, people are reluctant to eat chickens that they have bought up.
Also I think it's the quantity that effects this as well. People with few chickens would be more reluctant to eat one because they would have grown closer to each one etc, and people with many would find it easier.

[honeythorn]

You could obtain your proteins the same way as any other vegetarian, and still have your eggs ( and their protein ) without having to eat any of your chickens. Of course not everyone will want to or be able to kill and eat a bird they have raised, in which case they can simply do what other vegetarians do and avoid meat itself , but know where their eggs come from if nothing else.

Of course, if you can bear to kill and eat one of your own chickens, then fine. Although a good idea would be to ask at a few farms as to the quickest way to kill the bird and cause the least amount of pain and suffering possible. As with the eggs, you will know exactly how the bird has led it's life, what it has eaten, and how it's life has been ended , as you will be the one to have cared for it and in the end, killed it .

[Tam Li Hua]

I doubt that watching a video would make me stop eating meat. Supersize Me didn't stop me from eating fast food, either.

Ideally, I wouldn't mind learning how to hunt, and then killing and cleaning my own meat, but I just don't have the time for that. :/

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Saya

No one living in the western world doesn't have access to these things.

Wow, that's untrue.
You just proved her point, too.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Bat Attack

Most people would actually be unable to eat their own chickens because they would've become attached to them, even if they tried not too.

Then don't eat them, and don't bitch about not having meat.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Bat Attack

Most people would actually be unable to eat their own chickens because they would've become attached to them, even if they tried not too.

I grew up with chickens, and no, one doesn't really get attatched to them; they aren't exactly cuddly and loving creatures. :/

Neither are hogs, for that matter, though I imagine hogs would be -much- more difficult to kill and clean.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

I grew up with chickens, and no, one doesn't really get attatched to them; they aren't exactly cuddly and loving creatures. :/

Neither are hogs, for that matter, though I imagine hogs would be -much- more difficult to kill and clean.

People have pet scorpions, so the 'cuddly and loving' argument doesn't really say much about how attached one could get to a chicken.

[LiUsAiDh]

I've known a family who did get too attatched to their chickens. They said the trick is not to give them names.

[Ryaken]

I noticed this video was on American intensive farming (I only watched half as I was disgusted by it) and whilst intensive farming is bad anywhere i've heard it's worse there. Anywho, parenting dictates that I can't go vegan, or anything for that matter. Though I do enjoy Vegan food, I just happen to like lattes, bacon and muffins more

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Ryaken

Anywho, parenting dictates that I can't go vegan, or anything for that matter.

Parenting dictates that you don't have the balls to stand up for yourself and become vegan. Parenting is not stopping you from going vegan.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Ryaken

Anywho, parenting dictates that I can't go vegan, or anything for that matter.

No, really it doesn't. If your parents are fixing meals involving food that you don't want to eat then talk to your parents about it and if you have to get a job so that you can purchase and prepare your own food.