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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 07-17-2008, 06:28 AM   #1
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US healthcare costs more, delivers less: study

http://tinyurl.com/6l6w7a

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The United States lags behind other industrialized nations in the quality of its healthcare despite having the costliest system in the world, according to a report released on Thursday.

The US healthcare system is plagued by inefficiency, inequality and an incoherent national policy, said the report from the private Commonwealth Fund foundation.

"The US spends twice per capita what other major industrialized countries spend on health care, and costs continue to rise faster than income," said the report.

"We should expect a better return on this investment."

The foundation used a 100-point scorecard to rate the system based on 37 categories, including access to health care, quality of care and efficiency.

The US average came to 65, two points down from a previous measure in 2006. The score is compared to other countries and the best performing US states, counties or hospitals.

The measures showed "that the US is losing ground in providing access to care and has uneven health care quality" and also revealed "broad evidence of inefficient and inequitable care," it said.

The United States ranked last among 19 industrialized states when it comes to preventing premature deaths from conditions such as heart attacks that can be treated with timely, effective care, the report said.

Up to 101,000 less people would die prematurely if the US achieved the lower mortality rates of top performing countries such as France or Japan, it said.

Infant mortality rates also remain high in the United States compared to other industrialized nations.

Access to health care was on the decline, with more Americans without health insurance or without adequate insurance. In 2007, 75 million working-age adults were either uninsured or underinsured, up from 61 million in 2003.

Americans reported more delays in securing appointments with doctors. "In 2007, as in 2005, less than half of US adults with health problems were able to get a rapid appointment with a physician when they were sick," it said.

The US scored poorly on efficiency, with patients subjected to duplicate tests, unnecessary hospital admissions, high administrative costs and outdated record keeping, it said.

Only 28 percent of US doctors use electronic medical records, compared to nearly 100 percent in leading countries.

The report, based on data from US government agencies and other sources, underlined some areas of progress, including improved safety at hospitals and better control of diabetes and high blood pressure.
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:30 AM   #2
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If you look below to the thread on the movie Sicko, this was discussed and a few didn't believe it when I said this very thing. So here is this article, which again proves the same stats which that movie and at least three other organisations have published.

Americans pay more for health care than any other country and get less health care than any other country. Thanks to billions a year in lobbying and corporations which make money hand over fist via insurance, don't expect this to change anytime soon.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:28 PM   #3
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I believe you. I've seen it, and I'm pissed. But what is there to do about it?
I am really worried about it. Because it seem almost cliche, but if you don't have your health, you have nothing.
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:03 PM   #4
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First others must be aware. As it stands now a majority of Americans are against socialised medicine because they have this perception, which the US government has facilitated for decades, that socialised medicine will mean they will have to stand in long lines for some doctor in a dirty back room to give them half ass treatment with ancient medical machines, images from Russia in the early 1950's come to mind.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

The real issue is American drug companies. They make billions a year, and have lots of share holders, many of which are members of congress and other social elite. They want their stocks to make a profit each year, so they have to do something to continue to make the stocks rise. They do this by keeping drug prices high, buying off doctors and hospitals with 'free' drugs and equipment and of course spending billions on lobbying.

Until the average American wakes up to see they are being used by the industry as basically a human cash cow - being fed off by the drug industry, there is not much one person can do.

The pharmaceutical industry in America is second only to the defence industry. Is that any surprise considering the biggest social issues and foriegn polices?

Say no to drugs, yet 45% of children are on some type of drug today, legal drug that is. It's more like say no to drugs not produced by certain companies.

War for profit then is Americas second past time. But thats a topic for a whole different thread.
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:54 PM   #5
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I had heard most Americans support some kind of universal healthcare program, even if it means higher taxes. I can't back that up, though.

Tea and Cake, do you live in California? If so, I suggest supporting Senate Bill 840. If not, there's more than likely some bill or initiative for universal health care in your home state. Look it up.

The way I see it, universal health care in America won't be started at the federal level. All of the ideas floated by the presidential candidates are election year claptrap, not to mention bad ideas anyway. State-level initiates are the best shot.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:28 PM   #6
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To the reference to Sicko, I have to mention something, though. It wasn't mentioned in this thread, but it's just something that's true.
One of the most famous parts of Sicko is when the woman only had to pay five pesos for her medication when in America she would have to have paid over a hundred dollars.
While this is true, it is only because Cuban institutions pay a higher priority to tourists than to Cuban citizens. It is all a publicity stunt.

Now, I'm not saying the Cuban government sucks. Any other capitalist coastal city is exactly the same. Beautiful white beaches and state of the art installations for those who can afford it; the rest of the people in the same area, fuck them, what would we need them for, right?
But I'm just saying it because despite my fancy for Castro there's no reason to glorify him for a half-truth in a movie.

Now, a healthcare to be admired is France's. Its universal healthcare system only demands an average of seven percent of the people's income to work. In America, the average American spends ten to twenty percent of their income in health related costs, and we're all not even insured.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:51 PM   #7
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Wow, that's interesting.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:32 PM   #8
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The thing that is kind of funny to me is that the only Americans who have socialized health care are either in the military or are military dependents. If I have a problem then chances are that I will just go to the doctor down the road as it is far more convenient than going all the way to the Naval hospital as I do still have regular health insurance but if I go to Portsmouth Naval then I don't have to pay a dime for treatment and the price for meds is cheaper than through my regular insurance. *BUT* not all military hospitals are of the same caliber, some are downright sucky, others are first class.

The odd thing though is that veteran's hospitals still send you an invoice saying what it would have cost you if you were a normal person (though regular military hospitals do not do this).
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Now, a healthcare to be admired is France's. Its universal healthcare system only demands an average of seven percent of the people's income to work. In America, the average American spends ten to twenty percent of their income in health related costs, and we're all not even insured.
I agree. France is AMAZING when it comes to health care. I heard somewhere that if your grades are high enough, and you show enough potential you can become educated to be a doctor for free, or nearly free. As opposed to here where you can be dumb as a bag of rocks, but if you have enough money, and keep at it long enough you can graduate. (of course I realize there is a bit more to it than that, & I am being a bit too cynical . However, I am constantly pissed off at how colleges lower the mental requirements to attend, while at the same time upping their costs.)I don't know how true that is. If it is true I would be quite impressed, & begin learning French for when I retire.

Bonjour, Docteur !
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:45 PM   #10
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The problem is people who make money off the system in America can spend money to perpetuate the lie. Its like that with everything in America. People making money, insurace, HMO's, etc, can afford to pay people to spread rumors of higher costs of public health...America gets suckered into this stuff all the time....Another thing people don't realize is just because there is a public health system doesn't mean there can't be a private system on top of it...my brother lives in England and they're public system didn't cover a certain medicine, they only covered a lower grade version because of how new it was/is...but he could get it through a private doctor's office just as easily as he could in America.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Nightmare-Neverending
The problem is people who make money off the system in America can spend money to perpetuate the lie. Its like that with everything in America. People making money, insurace, HMO's, etc, can afford to pay people to spread rumors of higher costs of public health...America gets suckered into this stuff all the time....Another thing people don't realize is just because there is a public health system doesn't mean there can't be a private system on top of it...my brother lives in England and they're public system didn't cover a certain medicine, they only covered a lower grade version because of how new it was/is...but he could get it through a private doctor's office just as easily as he could in America.
I think you hit the nail on the head, actually. There's loads of cash in health insurance, and therefore a lot muscle not only to spread propaganda to defame public health care, but also a lot of lobbying power to kill any government initiatives for it. Or at least make sure they're included in any universal health care scheme. To paraphrase Capt. Reynolds from Firefly: "One-third of the human race is the middle man, and they don't take kindly to being cut out of the deal."

This is the main reason why I think public health care won't happen at the federal level at first. It should start at the state level, where it's less of an uphill battle.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:02 PM   #12
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I love public-funded healthcare. I think the problem with a lot of it though is that they're bogged down in bureaucracy, which costs money. If they streamlined the system, it would probably be cheaper.
Also, if they focused more on prevention, healthcare lines would be a lot shorter.
And yes, (intelligent) doctors need to be educated for free.

One thing I hear that I hate is people who use the logic "I don't use the healthcare system, so why should I help pay for it?"
Well... when something goes wrong with you, you'll be damn happy you don't have to live in massive debt for years to pay for it...
I've heard the same thing with education. "I don't have kids, so I shouldn't have to pay" but when some smart guy from a poor background becomes your cardiologist when you have a heart attack...
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci
One thing I hear that I hate is people who use the logic "I don't use the healthcare system, so why should I help pay for it?"
.
That is a very common attitude. The right-wing push this mindset all the time - telling people they shouldn't have to have their tax dollars being spend on poor people who 'wont work' and other nonsense.

I find it very ironic that things like ambulance services, police, fire brigades, libraries, public schools, and other socialised services are portrayed as good things, achievements of society and noble careers for anyone wishing to work in these fields, but attempting to establish a similar system to handle heath care is demonised, and the idea that people working in socialised health care would be sub-par, college drop outs who work in dingy back rooms.

It's a double standard being perpetrated play on the fears of the ignorant masses. Too bad they don't see that they are already paying for all of those other services for the same people they wish to deny heath care to and see the truth of how socialise medicine would be.
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