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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 10-05-2012, 04:21 PM   #101
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But Miss Absynthe, its okay for him to assume to know what your life is like, its just not okay for us to do it to a schoolboy who just doesn't know any better.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:46 PM   #102
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But Saya, how do you know that he doesn't know any better.. because he has stated that he *does* know better so obviously *that* must be the truth.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:19 PM   #103
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Yeah, you really don't get it.
Exactly, and neither do you. The difference is they understand they just won't get it but will make the effort of trying to do so anyway. You, on the other hand, are a white teenager thinking he's the only one that knows what life 'is like', which is especially patronizing when we're talking about race.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:38 PM   #104
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How fucking arrogant are you to come to a thread like this and claim to be a victim?

Seriously. Privilege - check it.
I'm not claiming to be a victim, just that Saya is saying things about me which aren't true. For what it's worth, privilege exists along several lines like was mentioned with intersectionality but I'm not interested in being a victim lol, why would I go looking for reasons to claim victimhood? Is it glamorous to be victimised?

As far as what you're saying Saya, do I care if you're queer or if Ape Descendent married a woman or Miss Absynthe is a sex worker (nice presumption that I have something against sex workers btw, I know I've been inactive for a while but that's quite the leap)? Though while we're on that subject I think I have said before that Miss Absynthe's sex work seems odd to me considering most people in sex work have little choice and now I'm meant to cheer the forward thinking of choosing that lifestyle but whatever, it doesn't bother me I'll just share my two cents cause I have enough individual agency not to believe I have to immediately submit in the face of whatever ism you call it cause I'm straight and cisgender male and white and all those other embarrassing things. Are these things somehow an illumination on race? Is Tyga a Judith Butler scholar because he's black and all oppression somehow bestows knowledge of another? You're listing things which are all perfectly admirable but almost completely irrelevant and like I said, trying to find ways to piggyback an issue that doesn't really belong to you

I didn't say I know more about racism, racial tension etc than you, that's the opposite of the point. Your defensiveness is my point. You have something to prove, and will never prove it, with your 'we the oppressed' and all this shit, you desperately have to be a part. You don't have to be, you're not meant to be, and I'm not saying that as part of this 'oh fuck, I'm white' insecurity you seem to have but simply that you can be informed and supportive without being a beg

Cue the vitriol
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:41 PM   #105
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Exactly, and neither do you. The difference is they understand they just won't get it but will make the effort of trying to do so anyway. You, on the other hand, are a white teenager thinking he's the only one that knows what life 'is like', which is especially patronizing when we're talking about race.
I'm saying they don't get what I'm trying to say. I do, I'm saying it
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:12 PM   #106
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Allow the white boy to educate you, Alan!

And JCC, if you don't get why sex worker rights are needed and intersectional, what are you getting on with?

Again, please point out exactly where the people here have tried to piggy back on racism and claim its our movement and we belong to it. Please point out where we said we know just as much about racism as PoC. All I see are us laughing at jokes about white people because we're white people and we know its true about ourselves because we say and do these things. If you'd like to come in and claim you know more than us because you live that much closer to racial discrimination than any other white person, I'd like to see some receipts.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:56 PM   #107
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@JCC - the levels of silencing behaviours that you are engaging in right now are mind-blowing.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:02 PM   #108
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Ssssshh, you're supposed to have no choice or agency and let dudebro speak for you.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:27 PM   #109
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/bes a good girl and sits quietly in the corner.

JCC, could you please thank Saya for reminding me of my place.. you know, so that my thanks to her is all valid and able to be heard and shit.
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:51 AM   #110
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I'm not sure how you're still not getting this but here goes: I'm not saying you shouldn't have a voice because you're women or queer or anything else (I know I've been absent a while but you know I've been talking Greer on here since the age of 12 so I dunno where the accusations are coming from, I guess the G in Gnet stands for glutton for punishment), I'm just saying you annoy me. At the beginning of the thread Alan said this thread wasn't for white people and I can understand that decision was hard for you cause you wanted to come in and join the down with whitey jokes and prove something to yourselves but at the same time coming where a Mexican has told you you're expressly not welcome could be construed as racist reprisal for the Alamo and you'd lose your 'I'm an intersectional queer feminist fighting white oppression' badge made of hemp, but here you are

Here's a story for you which you might enjoy cause cisgender white dudebro doesn't feature so strongly: when I was with my first serious girlfriend, who was black (in fact I've only ever really had anything with women who weren't white for whatever reason, here's your cue to lavish me with praise and wonderment as the little white boy who could and ask how I infiltrated ranks and overcame white whateverthefuckism), I was a lot like you. It took a couple of weeks for her to tell me to cut that shit out and treat her like a person rather than a social issue to flaunt. Overintellectualisation of minorities is the new patronising white model of behaviour. She didn't want to talk about race in any great detail, because for all I knew I didn't really know, and beyond knowing my heart was in the right place she didn't want to hear it. God knows what the fuck she would have said if I told her she was part of the process of deconstructing my own racism. This is what leads me to wonder what your conversations with minorities are like and really just makes me think you ain't met many. I was 15 when we had that conversation and at that point my friend circle was mostly white, now it's mostly not white (PoC as you Yanks call it) and I rarely talk about it any more, because they don't want to hear the white guy say shit they're perfectly aware of, or to be patronised by someone afraid to say anything for fear of offence or shielding them from dangerous white privilege rays. You can say all the white cisgender dudebro shit all you like, I've been up against the wall of my own house at my own party with a knife to my throat until his boys pulled him off cause they knew me and I was 'white but bless', while you were baking vegan cupcakes with GARVEY written on in icing or whatever you do in your struggle to understand racial tension. I know my whiteness is not a source of ignorance or shame, your behaviour is tedious. Besides, I thought the first step of those hippie racism deconstruction seminars for people who don't talk to enough PoC to figure out or be told this shit for themselves was that guilt and a fatalism about what white people are and what they do is unhelpful, or are you self-teaching?

Real talk tho this whole conversation is tedious, carry on obsessing over structural this and that to look informed to everyone else or circle wanking over your multitudinous oppressions or showing everyone how well you're doing at repudiating your evil whiteness

Also I dunno how you got that I was trying to educate Alan, Alan is largely irrelevant to what I'm saying (straight cisgender white schoolboy calls Hispanic male irrelevant, you can put that egregious example of racial sidelining in your anarcho riot grrrl Black Israelite queerfeminist drag queen Nation of Gods and Earth fanzine, put a Mumia bobbing dog freebie with it for other white people to put in their cars to show they're down with the struggle and piss off the pigs they'd still snitch to if they ever actually came into contact with a real crime)
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:35 AM   #111
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So, basically.. this is just a long long way of saying "..but some of my friends are black!"?

Dude.. next time please just say that, because I don't cope well with the large chunks of text.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:40 AM   #112
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So, basically.. this is just a long long way of saying "..but some of my friends are black!"?

Dude.. next time please just say that, because I don't cope well with the large chunks of text.
No, that's basically the opposite of my point, you're right tho, you do struggle with large chunks of text
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:45 AM   #113
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Yes, I do. It's actually due to a disability and is why I originally asked you to use paragraphs.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:15 AM   #114
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It's like I want to say something, but this little part of me wants to see where it goes.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:17 AM   #115
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Was I meant to know that? If you'd said that was the case I would've obliged, people often take the piss out of how I never paragraph, I can't assume they all have a condition
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:17 AM   #116
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So, basically.. this is just a long long way of saying "..but some of my friends are black!"?

Dude.. next time please just say that, because I don't cope well with the large chunks of text.
Long way of saying "I didn't read this thread and saw where most of it had to do with collecting Jonathan who's white and was making the thread about him and how racism doesn't exist, since it was mostly between Alan and Versus until that point. I tried patronizing PoC in my youth and I just automatically projected my personal failings onto everyone. I've also managed to make this thread about me and my white opinions."
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:24 AM   #117
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Like I said, tedious. I'll keep my white opinions for myself and you can keep pretending your trendy WHITE (that must sting) progressivism is helpful, and then we're all happy
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:26 AM   #118
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Was I meant to know that? If you'd said that was the case I would've obliged, people often take the piss out of how I never paragraph, I can't assume they all have a condition
I didn't say that you were meant to know anything.

I shouldn't have to give you a reason for asking for something. I asked you to paragraph, you chose to ignore the request.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:31 AM   #119
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Like I said, tedious. I'll keep my white opinions for myself and you can keep pretending your trendy WHITE (that must sting) progressivism is helpful, and then we're all happy
But seriously, you don't see how funny it is to come into a thread where people are joking about how silly white people are after having a long long winded argument with a white bro over racism that spanned many threads, where PoC don't have a problem with white people making jokes about themselves, and you talk over them because you think they should be offended by any white person talking about racism ever because you're an asshole and have been told off for doing so in the past?
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:40 AM   #120
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:41 AM   #121
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My black girlfriend in highschool said memes were annoying, and we all know that all black people think the same and I should take her as a representative of her entire race. Therefore, it is insensitive of you to post a meme in a thread where PoC are.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:43 AM   #122
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@Saya - you just made me laugh tea all over my screen.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:48 AM   #123
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@Saya - you just made me laugh tea all over my screen.
Let me name drop a transphobic dated feminist to you so you know I understand feminism way more than any woman does.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:51 AM   #124
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Transphobic? Surely you mean "queerfeminist drag queen"-phobic.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:54 AM   #125
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I didn't say that you were meant to know anything.

I shouldn't have to give you a reason for asking for something. I asked you to paragraph, you chose to ignore the request.
Ok, sorry I made things difficult for you, I'll try not to write in big blocks

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But seriously, you don't see how funny it is to come into a thread where people are joking about how silly white people are after having a long long winded argument with a white bro over racism that spanned many threads, where PoC don't have a problem with white people making jokes about themselves, and you talk over them because you think they should be offended by any white person talking about racism ever because you're an asshole and have been told off for doing so in the past?
No, I think it's funny to see silly white people going along with it. I didn't say anyone should be offended, I haven't addressed Alan or Versus really. I was talking to you and other white ppl. I didn't talk over anyone, that discussion was already rounded off, to me anyway, and you're right, I haven't seen and am not aware of Jonathan's comments in other threads.

I wasn't 'told off', I was guided, I was with her for the next two years and it never really came up again. I didn't see it as being told off cause I don't have a chip on my shoulder about this shit, and because she wasn't quite as uppity about the dumb white folk as you, but it was enlightening. That said I haven't taken all she said to heart since despite being a BLACK PERSON she had no monopoly on race thinking so it's complicated, much like anything where people are involved

You may think your behaviour is different, I'm inclined to disagree

I think you're coming from a position of white ignorance suddenly opened up to a lot of race theory without much day to day interaction with the people the theory applies to, I could be wrong but that's the impression I get, if it's not true then who cares

Either way you're right, this thread's gone more off topic and I don't use this forum any more really for a variety of reasons so w/e, llow it
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