Prejudices against Gothic Culture

[nuksaa]

Originally Posted by merivelles

WE ARE NOT CREATED EQUALLY!!! I DO NOT HAVE A PENIS IN MY PANTS!! If we were so equal then we'd all be getting paid the same amount of money! Do not give me this heap of unthougthout CRAP about how we are all equal! If we were so EQUAL, this place would be a Utohpia of sorts.
-sighs heavily-

So you view yourself as lesser than one who gets paid more than you? You believe you cannot stand next to one who has more material wealth? Are you really looking at the starting point or the results? This place is a Utopia of sorts, we (mankind) have perverted into a place where we have difficulty seeing beyond the surface value of an individual. I do it, you do it and we are not going to change overnight. Though you don't have a penis, as if that added or subtracted some value to your existance, you and I still put our pants on one leg at a time or just shoot both legs through at once or, should we be wearing skirts, we would don them the same (though I am sure you would look much better than I would).

[merivelles]

Originally Posted by nuksaa

So you view yourself as lesser than one who gets paid more than you? You believe you cannot stand next to one who has more material wealth? Are you really looking at the starting point or the results? This place is a Utopia of sorts, we (mankind) have perverted into a place where we have difficulty seeing beyond the surface value of an individual. I do it, you do it and we are not going to change overnight. Though you don't have a penis, as if that added or subtracted some value to your existance, you and I still put our pants on one leg at a time or just shoot both legs through at once or, should we be wearing skirts, we would don them the same (though I am sure you would look much better than I would).

Then perhaps I did not quite understand what you meant to say. I was meaning along the lines of personality and the way we, as individuals, see things. Oh yes, there are people out there that are like us, but there is no equal. The things we wear on the outside are the things that make us "equal", I suppose...If there was any sense in that....What I mean to say is that material things and the rules set out by our government are what makes us equals...If it weren't for such things, the world would be absurdly diverse, leaving no room for normality. But what is "normal" anymore? The new age trend of being "gawth" or emo...It's all so sickening sometimes....I think I'll go hibernate in my room and read the rest of Girl Walking Backwards before facing such...insanity. YAY BOOKS!
(And I doubt I'd look better in a skirt then you." ^_^

[nuksaa]

The things we wear on the outside are the things that make us "equal", I suppose...If there was any sense in that....What I mean to say is that material things and the rules set out by our government are what makes us equals...

I would disagree. I think the external thing and items which can be measured are where society forces us to see each other as not equal. Rules set by the government normally increase the rift between vice mending different groups.

Of course I am going to be different in personality. We may share common interests but I am not going to be as passionate to the same degree in those common interests as you and then there will be the uncommon interests we will have. I am not saying we are clones meant to behave in the same manner. I am saying there is no reason to view you a lesser person as a whole just because you do not align exactly with me (and you would be very boring if you did).

Someone will always come along and perform a specific item or several specific items better than another, especially when it comes to items confined by metrics. But what about those items which cannot be measured. Is my ability to love, for example, different than yours? No. I am only limited in that capacity by self imposed limits I have falsely placed upon myself due the consequences of life's experiences. And that leads into my ablility to experience life is no different than yours. It is these intangible qualities which make us equal.

Too many people who speak of equality are looking to place us all in a mold. A form fitted wrapping to place on a shelf and go "oh look, don't they coordinate so well". When I speak of equal, I speak of our ability to have the same potential and the ability to be equally diverse. What ever is displayed on the surface, in the form of clothes, cash or cars, is not the measure of equality or identity, for someone will always have one more penny. Much of society is trying to teach us is to judge each other based wholly on these surface items and our identity is connected to these items.

Just because we are diverse, does not mean I should view you as not equal and unimportant in your contribution to life. And just because someone does something better than you doesn't mean you should feel the lesser person. Acknowledge it and move on or else you will become stuck, lose your identity and become the lesser person you now view you are.

(And I doubt I'd look better in a skirt then you." ^_^

Are you quite daft? Or just inflicted with madness? I would have to shave my legs and the the years of scar tissue would show. Trust me, Scooby Doo looks better in a skirt than I would.

[merivelles]

I see. I do understand what you are saying. It makes a lot more sense to me now, thank you for somewhat opening my eyes more. I agree that nowadays people seek to put us into molds (much like what I did...) just so they can say that we are equal.

Daft and inflicted with madness...wow you may have hit two of my strong points. And I believe you shouldn't care about the scars...but that's just me.

[Temptation]

All subcultures are discriminated, but some more than others. The hippies were the first to be discriminated against and from the hippies evolved the other sub cultures. It should be natural now for everyone. The only question I have is, What deems someone normal in the eyes of society?

[nuksaa]

Originally Posted by Temptation

All subcultures are discriminated, but some more than others. The hippies were the first to be discriminated against

Did you just skip over the 50's? Preeminence of Rock n' Roll? Motorcycle gangs? Carnies? Some subculture has always been labelled and blamed for social problems. Why does anyone watch Jerry Springer? Many watch so they can feel better about themselves.

[WolfMoon]

I watch it because it makes me miss my sisters less...

[Loy]

Wolfmoon-can you please move this thread into "whine" where it belongs? not to be too nitpicky, but the adolesent philosophical/sociological tracts seem to fit better there.

[WolfMoon]

Ah, great suggestion.

Why didn't I think of it sooner?

[Sanctus Dei]

Hi Loy!!

(Nice to see you poke your head around the corner every so often. )


As often as this question is asked... it almost and unending answer. As previously stated what sub culture ISN'T generalized, labeled, and discriminated against? From the begining of my gothic realization to my current state I have yet to find a single prejudice personally insulting... people tend to become hostile when a lack of understanding looms over their silly heads.

[An Eccentric Cellist]

Wow, seven posts and I already want your skull on a stake. Go away you ass. But if you must stay consider grammar and spelling, 'kay.
Oh and it's death threats not teasing.
Have a nice day.

[Boogywoogyman]

What is life?How come no one has a good explanation.Goths are every ware even in the people that don't wear black.Because there hearts are black and disturbing

[Boogywoogyman]

people laugh at me in school because i'm diffrent ,not popular,punck,or rocker.but Pyromaniact yes

[Boogywoogyman]

A wannabe goth came up to me and said you can't be goth because you have blue eyes.

[Boogywoogyman]

Evil lives in all of us nobody knows it . That's pathetic

[endemonidia]

Can I say 'troll'?

[endemonidia]

Voltaire sums it up quite eloquently in his book What is Goth? (I was vaguely interested with the photographs on the cover, and amused by the style):

The Goth scene and the mundane [ie normal] world have always been at odds. This rift is largely due to a miniscule breakdown in communication resulting simply from the misapplication of certain words.

For instance, the mainstream associates the word 'spooky' with things that illicit fear, and consequently the word has negative connotations. Truth be told, if Goths spent a lot of time around real spiders, skills, and bats, they too might feel this way. The spiders, skulls, and bats that actually pervade the lives of most Goths come in the way of T-shirt designs, stickers, tattoos, and that sort of thing; they are only representations of those potentially harmful things - and are thus, in and unto themsleves, harmless. Goths understand this; the mainstream does not [...]

To Goths, 'spooky' is a term that, for the most part, refers to an aesthetic [...] A coffin-shaped lunchbox is spooky [...] because Goths have a love affair with the romantic depiction of death; this is not to say that Goths want anything to do with the real thing [...]

The mundane world is a place that endeavors to maintain a bright, cheery, and optimistic appearance [...] [mundane's] phony, perky happiness (induced by drowning themselves in a ntidepressants), their insidious duplicity, and their holier-than-thou self-righteousness stances are nothing short of 'creepy'.

Unlike 'spooky' things - which look cool but are essentially innocuous - 'creepy' things are all too real and more often than not come in dusguise, hiding in the 'normal' world of the mundanes where they thrive [...] once you come to understand the difference between 'spooky' and 'creepy' you will most likely realise an interesting fact: 'Spooky' Goths are essentially bad on the outside and good on the inside, while many 'creepy' mundanes are good on the outside and bad on the inside.

Wearing black all of the time is spooky.
Wearing any other colour all of the time is creepy.
(think about it - all purple?)
Impersonating a vampire is spooky.
Impersonating a police officer is creepy.
Elvira was spooky.
Elvis was creepy (at least toward the end)
Wearing womens's fishnets over clothes is spooky.
Wearing womens's fishnets under you business suit is creepy.
Putting on whiteface is spooky.
Putting on blackface is creepy (especially if you're the white governor of a southern state).
Having twenty-seven skull t-shirts in your closet is spooky.
Having twenty-seven skulls buried in the crawl space under your house is creepy.
Being hated by everyone is spooky.
Hating them all back is creepy (but completely understandable!).
Freaking out your parents is spooky (and an age-old human tradition that people seem to forget about once they become parents).
Calling your child a freak is creepy (and really conterproductive).

[OCD Insomnia]

Personally being judged and approached by people is completely unnoticed to me. There is allways going to be a group who is a target by people who don't express and who supress their negative thoughts because they think is would be wrong to think them. The negativity to strange people is not bad in northern california. Mostly because we are the majority of the youth. But there is allways the occasional loud mouthed brainwashed by their parents child that asks the famous question "are you evil?" Wich makes me smile every time.

[Circle V]

Goths are often interested in (or obsessed with, depending on who you ask) with death, decay, darkness, and other things that are considered 'bad' by most people (and probably by most Goths, though in a slightly different way.) It's no wonder that we're shunned, and I'm not quite sure why it's that important-- it seems to me that most Goths were misfits long before they entered the fold, and will remain misfits even were they to 'leave' the subculture.

On a related note, I got "Can you do magic?" from a kid the other day.

[Catch]

Oh. fornication under carnal knowledge!

[Engulfed_in_darkness]

Originally Posted by belle hawk

because i generally wear black clothes one of my teacher implied to the class that i'm a satanist*rolling my eyes*.Hello ,clothes don't make any one Evil.I'm glad he haven't looked into my mp3 yet

> The nerve of that teacher! Did he honestly in front of you and the whole class just ASSUME something through the blantant foolishness running the country?! It reminds me one time where I was sitting on the FAR end of the lunch table by the window on a rainy day reading Raven's Point(quite the great work of literature if I do say so myself) and one of the most skanky, mean, bitchy prep girl walks up to me with The Holy Bible and says "I CAST YOU BACK INTO THE FIERY PITS OF SHEOL FROM WHENCE YOU CAME! I BANISH YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST DEVIL WORSHIPPER!" and laughs.
Do you know exactly what pissed me off about that foolish remark? Im Christian. Yes. A believer. And the little bitch is a tremendous sinner so I'd shut up if I were her. Damn people, clothes does not define your belief! The idiocy these days! -_-#

[horrorgirl]

1989 the number another summer (get down)
Sound of the funky drummer
Music hittin' your heart cause I know you got soul
(Brothers and sisters, hey)
Listen if you're missin' y'all
Swingin' while I'm singin'
Givin' whatcha gettin'
Knowin' what I knowin'
While the Black bands sweatin'
And the rhythm rhymes rollin'
Got to give us what we want
Gotta give us what we need
Our freedom of speech is freedom or death
We got to fight the powers that be
(faint voice in the background)Let me hear you say

Chorus
Fight the power
Fight the power
Fight the power
Fight the power
Fight the power
Fight the power
Fight the power
Wheve got to Fight the powers that be.

As the rhythm designed to bounce
What counts is that the rhymes
Designed to fill your mind
Now that you've realized the prides arrived
We got to pump the stuff to make us tough
from the heart
It's a start, a work of art
To revolutionize make a change nothin's strange
People, people we are the same
No we're not the same
Cause we don't know the game
What we need is awareness, we can't get careless
You say what is this?
My beloved, lets get down to business
Mental self defensive fitness
(Yo) bum rush the show
You gotta go for what you know
Make everybody see, in order to fight the powers that be
(faint voice in background) Lemme hear you say...
Fight the Power

Chorus

Chorus

Elvis was a hero to most(3x)
But he never meant, shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother fuck him and John Wayne
Cause I'm Black and I'm proud
I'm ready and hyped plus I'm amped
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps
Sample a look back you look and find
Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check
Don't worry be happy
Was a number one jam
Damn if I say it you can slap me right here
(Get it) lets get this party started right
Right on, c'mon
What we got to say
Power to the people no delay
Make everybody see
In order to fight the powers that be

Chorus

What we got to say
fight the power,cmon(x3)

[horrorgirl]

Punk's not dead
It just deserves to die
When it becomes another stale cartoon
A close-minded, self-centered social club
Ideas don't matter, it's who you know
If the music's gotten boring
It's because of the people
Who want everyone to sound the same
Who drive bright people out
Of our so-called scene
'Til all that's left Is just a meaningless fad
Hardcore formulas are dogshit
Change and caring are what's real
Is this a state of mind
Or just another label
The joy and hope of an alternative
Have become its own cliche
A hairstyle's not a lifestyle
Imagine Sid Vicious at 35
Who needs a scene
Scared to love and to feel
Judging everythng
By loud fast rules appeal
Who played last night?
"I don't know, I forgot.
But diving off the stage Was a lot of fun."
[Chorus:]
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees
So eager to please
Peer pressure decrees

Make the same old mistakes
Again and again,
Chickenshit conformist
Like your parents
What's ripped us apart even more than drugs
Are the thieves and the goddamn liars
Flipping people off when they share their stuff
When someone falls are there any friends?
Harder core than thou for a year or two
Then it's time to get a real job
Others stay home, it's no fun to go out
When the gigs are wrecked by gangs and thugs
When the thugs form bands, look who gets record deals
From New York metal labels looking to scam
Who sign the most racist queerbashing bands they can find
To make a buck revving kids up for war
Walk tall, act small
Only as tough as gang approval
Unity is bullshit
When it's under someone's fat boot
Where's the common cause
Too many factions
Safely sulk in their shells
Agree with us on everything
Or we won't help with anythng
That kind of attitude
Just makes a split grow wider
Guess who's laughing while the world explodes
When we're all crybabies
Who fight best among ouselves

[Chorus]

That farty old rock and roll attitude's back
"It's competition, man, we wanna break big."
Who needs friends when the money's good
That's right, the '70s are back.
Cock-rock metal's like a bad laxative
It just don't move me, ya know?
The music's OK when there's more ideas than solos
Do we rally need the attitude too?
Shedding thin skin too quickly
As a fan it disappoints me
Same old stupid sexist lyrics
Or is Satan all you can think of?
Crossover is just another word
For lack of ideas
Maybe what we need
Are more trolls under the bridge
Will the metalheads finally learn something-
Or will the punks throw away their education?
No one's ever the best
Once they believe their own press
"Maturing" don't mean rehashing
Mistakes of the past

[Chorus]

The more things change
The more they stay the same
We can't grow
When we won't criticize ourselves
The '60s weren't all failure
It's the '70s that stunk
As the clock ticks we dig the same hole
Music scenes ain't real life
They won't get rid of the bomb
Won't eliminate ****
Or bring down the banks
Any kind of real change
Takes more time and work
Than changing channels on a TV set

[Chorus]

[Niels]

Horrorgirl: do you have to prove a point or something? If so, tell us, if not, quit posting the same lyrics, please.

[Immortal_Death]

I was teased and and named at school.....They just dont know about goth subculture. They think it's a bunch of weirdos dressed up in black and white and think strange.