Fuck u all.

[Saya]

Thats more being reasonable about my limits, if I were lets say attacked, if it was by a much bigger man (and Newfoundland is one of the fattest provinces, my odds of running away and outrunning the guy are better than overpowering him) chances are any weapon I have would be used against me, its common sense. I'm not a big person or by any means very strong. Also one thing I didn't even mention was that I'm more likely to be attacked by someone I know and trust and at home, the other more likely scenario is at a bar and I think its a little dangerous to bring a weapon to a bar, even if a guy on the internet told me how to slice off a finger so they'd bleed to death. And again, I'm not worried about it.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Saya

If I had a knife chances are they could grab it out of my hand and stab me, I'm more likely to be hurt by the knife than any attacker. Secondly, why should I be afraid of being defenseless? Why should I get caught up in paranoia that every man that walks past me is a potential rapist, and that I shouldn't even be out after dark? I'm not stupid, I avoid dark alley ways and know enough self defense to be able to get out of a grip and run, but like I said, St.John's has a pretty low crime rate and its rare that you hear about women being randomly attacked in public. I'm just not afraid.

It's one thing to not be afraid, it's a completely different thing to say that since the very rare chance you'd ever be attacked, it's absolutely pointless to try to make yourself a harder target. I mean... if someone is actually going to try to hurt you, then why would they jump on the opportunity with nothing, confiscate your purse, search it for your knife, and then hurt you with it... when it's clearly easier to come and do a crime prepared?

You could have simply said in the beginning that you live in a very safe city and that you have nothing to worry about. But somehow, you're implying that making yourself a softer target is somehow BETTER in some way, which makes no sense.

Seriously... any criminal with half a brain is not going to go into a crime completely unprepared.

[Saya]

If I whipped out a knife in time its only easy to grab my wrist, even if I had the opportunity to find it in my purse. I think a kick in the nads and running away would be far more effective and not necessarily making myself an easier target.

Its not even about "well I should make it easier for the criminal", its "I'm not going to allow myself to become so paranoid that i feel I need a gun at a bookstore to feel safe." or "I'm still going to take a walk even if its night."

Oh and if you look I actually did say in my original post that i live in a safe city, fyi.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Saya

If I whipped out a knife in time its only easy to grab my wrist, even if I had the opportunity to find it in my purse. I think a kick in the nads and running away would be far more effective and not necessarily making myself an easier target.

Its not even about "well I should make it easier for the criminal", its "I'm not going to allow myself to become so paranoid that i feel I need a gun at a bookstore to feel safe." or "I'm still going to take a walk even if its night."

Oh and if you look I actually did say in my original post that i live in a safe city, fyi.

No, I got the whole safe city thing. Which is why I mentioned it. But I was pointing out that your original statement made it sound as if you conceded to the idea of making yourself an even easier target because you are in fact a complete push over.

[Saya]

I simply said that there's no point in using a weapon that I probably would have no chance of using, which was just one reason I mentioned as to why I don't carry a knife anymore, the other part of that reason that I did state in the exact some post is that I don't even need it anyway. I'm not defenseless if there is no threat to begin with.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Conner in California the laws are so strict on weapons that I'm surprised we're allowed forks. Even items used in martial arts education (nunchaku or three section staffs) are felonies and will get you a nice trip to county unless they're in, going to, or coming from a martial arts school. That may be the reason hearing people carry live ammo on their waists sounds so absurd to me.

The thing I find odd is that gun control is much more lax in places like Kentucky or whatever (probably rural) place deadman lives, and yet I'm willing to bet the crime rate, especially violent crime, is much higher in downtown Los Angeles than it is over there.
I'm sure population density factors into that, but still.

I'll concede a partial point, it is absurd to say you never have a good reason to carry a gun with you into a store without knowing what store and where it is. I'm fairly certain it's overkill the majority of times, but absolute statements are hard to maintain.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Saya

Thats more being reasonable about my limits, if I were lets say attacked, if it was by a much bigger man (and Newfoundland is one of the fattest provinces, my odds of running away and outrunning the guy are better than overpowering him) chances are any weapon I have would be used against me, its common sense. I'm not a big person or by any means very strong. Also one thing I didn't even mention was that I'm more likely to be attacked by someone I know and trust and at home, the other more likely scenario is at a bar and I think its a little dangerous to bring a weapon to a bar, even if a guy on the internet told me how to slice off a finger so they'd bleed to death. And again, I'm not worried about it.

"A man has got to know his limitations." - Clint Eastwood (from Dirty Harry)

I've always kept that quote in mind, as I think it really applies to all of us. Saya's comments are a reasonable assessment of what she is capable of and what she may not be capable of. And her assessment of what good a knife would be against a larger, stronger male is spot on. If she was packing a gun it might be a different story, but a knife is very difficult to use against a stronger opponent. She is not being defeatist at all ... she's just being a realist.

There's a thing I dislike more than pessimism, and that is false optimism. If you give a small woman a knife and tell her "Now you can defend yourself", you've probably made her less safe. Because a knife is useless in a gun fight, a knife is not an effective weapon against a larger opponent and a knife requires you to get too close to your adversary. All it will do is give her a false sense of security and possibly lead her to make unsafe choices in a dangerous situation.

I've read lots of news stories about women beating off attackers with purses, umbrellas, canes, pepper spray, mace, guns and moves they learned from self-defense training. I don't ever remember reading a story of a woman fending off her attacker with a knife.

A knife is about the worst weapon I could think of to try to defend yourself with.

[Methadrine]

Also, if she sticks that knife into the guy assaulting her, she'd get some serious problem with the police later on. Yes, even if it was for self-defence.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Conner in California the laws are so strict on weapons that I'm surprised we're allowed forks. Even items used in martial arts education (nunchaku or three section staffs) are felonies and will get you a nice trip to county unless they're in, going to, or coming from a martial arts school. That may be the reason hearing people carry live ammo on their waists sounds so absurd to me.

The thing I find odd is that gun control is much more lax in places like Kentucky or whatever (probably rural) place deadman lives, and yet I'm willing to bet the crime rate, especially violent crime, is much higher in downtown Los Angeles than it is over there.
I'm sure population density factors into that, but still.

I'll concede a partial point, it is absurd to say you never have a good reason to carry a gun with you into a store without knowing what store and where it is. I'm fairly certain it's overkill the majority of times, but absolute statements are hard to maintain.

And I totally get where you're coming from completely. I will agree with you however on the degree of self defense and say that although Deadman is legally allowed to go into a Boarders and don his gun, that amount of self defense is not necessary and that it is pretty much overkill. Especially knowing the locals of said area to a degree. In all honesty, Kentuckians will generally leave you alone so long as you're minding your own business.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

And I totally get where you're coming from completely. I will agree with you however on the degree of self defense and say that although Deadman is legally allowed to go into a Boarders and don his gun, that amount of self defense is not necessary and that it is pretty much overkill. Especially knowing the locals of said area to a degree. In all honesty, Kentuckians will generally leave you alone so long as you're minding your own business.

I still like to have the option handy (If you've been to some of the places I've been you would know why I keep said hog leg close by).

[korinna5555]

Maybe you shouldn't go there, then. If you knowingly go to a shady or questionable place/part of town, that makes you dumb. Or equally shady.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by korinna5555

Maybe you shouldn't go there, then. If you knowingly go to a shady or questionable place/part of town, that makes you dumb. Or equally shady.

Well seeing as how I like to ride around on an ATV in the summer,and there are fewer and fewer places to ride I don't have a whole lot of choice in the matter.

Besides you never know who or what you might run into around the next bend on one of these old dirt roads even in the best of circumstances.

"Then give up guns and ATV's" some of you might say ... My response to that line of thinking...I'd rather cut my own eyelids off with a dull knife.

[Tam Li Hua]

^ Methinks that perhaps it's time to move, if you want a place to ride around that's safer than where you are. =/ Also, you're reminding me more and more of people I went to high school with: hunting boots, a love of knives and guns, dirt-riding on the weekends, etc. [Also, I think korinna was assuming you were riding around in a town, not the backwoods of whatever state you're in..]

I've never been a fan of dirt-riding myself, though I've lived in circumstances perfect for it before. And, even if I had, I doubt that anyone in that area, even in the middle of Alabama, was redneck enough to shoot me because of it. Seems that as long as you stay off of a person's private property when you aren't invited, then you should be okay. [That being said, I much prefer living in an actual city to living 30 minutes or more out in the middle of nowhere. ]

Then again, if you're trespassing on someone's private property, then I can't really blame them for wanting you off of it by any means possible. =P

On an entirely different subject, the only two weapons that have remotely appealed to me are the bow and the staff. It seems like it would be relatively difficult to accidentally kill myself or others with either of those.

[korinna5555]

Oh, sorry deadman. I forgot that you were a paranoid redneck. Never mind!

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

^ Methinks that perhaps it's time to move, if you want a place to ride around that's safer than where you are. =/ Also, you're reminding me more and more of people I went to high school with: hunting boots, a love of knives and guns, dirt-riding on the weekends, etc.

I've never been a fan of dirt-riding myself, though I've lived in circumstances perfect for it before. And, even if I had, I doubt that anyone was redneck enough to shoot me because of it. Seems that as long as you stay off of a person's private property when you aren't invited, then you should be okay. [That being said, I much prefer living in an actual city to living 30 minutes or more out in the middle of nowhere. ]

On an entirely different subject, the only two weapons that have remotely appealed to me are the bow and the staff. It seems like it would be relatively difficult to accidentally kill myself or others with either of those.

I'm talking about Public Property in this case.

Wolf Creek,Pigeon Roost and on into Pike County.

I was 15 years old at the time and riding around Wolf Creek (Maynard Fork to be more exact),I stopped for a little while at the widest spot on the side of the road,letting the engine cool down a little and having a smoke in the shade.

When I finished the Cigarette I started to top off the gas tank (Didn't want to be stuck running on the reserve lines on the way back home,again).

That's when I heard a truck coming from the main road,I didn't pay it any mind at first just thought it was someone else out for a ride or looking for a place to stop and party.
The truck started getting closer,I decided it might be best if I put the gas cap back on and give whoever it was a little more room as I did so the truck came around the curve,I gave a little more ground,the driver stuck his arm out the window signaling for me to stop,he then waved me over,he wasn't alone.

I stopped,then kicked the 300 into reverse thinking "They probably need directions or something" when I got close enough I stopped to ask what the problem was,two fellows jump off the back and start walking toward me,dumbass number one started telling me I needed to "Get off that four-wheeler right now!"

Before Dumbass number two could produce his "ATV Liberation aid" to back up Dumbass number one's verbal command,I had my single action (I had the .22 Magnum cylinder in my heritage arms rough rider fully loaded) out of it's holster and brought it up to eye my eye level thumbing the hammer back and flicking the safety off (Yes,the heritage Arms revolver actually does have a safety,look it up) as I did.

Dumbass number one got a little more intelligent so did Dumbass number two (His hand stopped going for what was in his waist band) Both turned to try and catch up to the truck that was booking it out of there in reverse.

I then started to ride hell bent for leather for the old Martin County Coal strip mine,I cut across there and headed through to the turn off for Jude and Howell Cemetery,kept to the right and was on the black top booking it for home in no time flat.

[Tam Li Hua]

^ Uhm...kay. I still don't see where a gun was absolutely necessary in that situation. Yes, I can see how that may be frightening, but like I said, perhaps this would be a sign to dirt-ride somewhere a little...safer. Perhaps on a friend's private land or something. Or heck, buy some land of your own to go riding on. That way you won't have to worry as much about random douche bags.

An idiotic act on your attacker's part does not constitute an even more idiotic act on your part, in other words.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Having a sidearm handy saved my ass,nothing you can say will change that.

Telling me I need to ride somewhere else is the same as telling me "Don't step foot into your back yard" I grew up in those places.

[Tam Li Hua]

^ Ok, now I'm getting annoyed. So you grew up in a place. That doesn't mean that place is going to stay to your liking forever. Besides that, I don't see where buying your own land to ride around on is such a horrific idea to you, but whatever; I'm done with this. It's like talking to an extremely stubborn child about why they shouldn't run out into a busy highway to get their red ball. >_<

You're going to keep using stupidity to defend yourself until the day you actually do shoot someone and get imprisoned for manslaughter or something. Geez, wtf dude.

For the record, I grew up in a very unsafe town myself, but never in my life was I stupid enough to go places where I knew I'd get hurt, nor did I ever feel the need to pick up a gun to resolve my issues. [It's a good thing, too; with my temper, I'd most likely have shot someone by now.]

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

^ Ok, now I'm getting annoyed. So you grew up in a place. That doesn't mean that place is going to stay to your liking forever. Besides that, I don't see where buying your own land to ride around on is such a horrific idea to you, but whatever; I'm done with this. It's like talking to an extremely stubborn child about why they shouldn't run out into a busy highway to get their red ball. >_<

You're going to keep using stupidity to defend yourself until the day you actually do shoot someone and get imprisoned for manslaughter or something. Geez, wtf dude.

For the record, I grew up in a very unsafe town myself, but never in my life was I stupid enough to go places where I knew I'd get hurt, nor did I ever feel the need to pick up a gun to resolve my issues. [It's a good thing, too; with my temper, I'd most likely have shot someone by now.]

Well how do you expect to keep a place to your liking if you don't let the bastards know you're not to be fucked with?

Everything would've been fine if they had not tried to pull that shit,they quickly got the point and got out of dodge,never to be seen by this old boy again without me having to fire a shot.

It isn't really the locals you have to worry about in a majority of instances (Though there are a few folks that are well known for problems with the law),most of the time we go out of the way to help if we can.

In a number of instances it's the wanna' be gang members from spots like Columbus,they get back in the hills and think the same rules that apply in their home state apply here,which usually ends with a few finding out that just isn't the case.

Even those instances are rare,but it does happen,from time to time.

So I take precautions just in case.

[Tam Li Hua]

^ Of course it happens, but threatening such folks with a gun sounds like one of the worst courses of action you could take in a situation like that; it can lead to serious injury, death, and/or imprisonment of either...or sometimes both...parties.

Other people have gotten out of such situations without using a loaded weapon; that's what self-defense teaches you to do.

If you like guns, that's all fine and dandy. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that you seem to think that it's the only way you have of defending yourself; it makes me think you'll probably end up in jail eventually. And, you know what? They don't let you ride ATV's in jail.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

^ Of course it happens, but threatening such folks with a gun sounds like one of the worst courses of action you could take in a situation like that; it can lead to serious injury, death, and/or imprisonment of either...or sometimes both...parties.

Other people have gotten out of such situations without using a loaded weapon; that's what self-defense teaches you to do.

If you like guns, that's all fine and dandy. That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that you seem to think that it's the only way you have of defending yourself; it makes me think you'll probably end up in jail eventually. And, you know what? They don't let you ride ATV's in jail.

Okay think this through...

Two people have just jumped off the back of a truck and are walking toward you while your seated on a utility class ATV that you just turned off so you could talk to and hear what the driver motioned you over to ask about in the first place.

One of the guys tells you to get off your property while the other is reaching into his waist band for the grip of a handgun.

You have a split second to react to the situation...with two very real possibilities as the result.

Do what they say,most likely getting shot after they've loaded up the four-wheeler, taken your firearm, and any money you might have had on your person (What would stop them from doing so after all).

Or

Pull the revolver in your holster, play it by ear,and live to tell about it.

[Tam Li Hua]

^ I fully understand that in that situation, it helped you...but there's lots of ways it could have gone wrong. If he had pulled out whatever was in his waist, and you had pulled the trigger, you could have gotten arrested for manslaughter, or perhaps cold-blooded murder.

If it had been me, and I had wanted to ride by myself, I probably would have stayed on my own land or my friend's land.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

^ I fully understand that in that situation, it helped you...but there's lots of ways it could have gone wrong. If he had pulled out whatever was in his waist, and you had pulled the trigger, you could have gotten arrested for manslaughter, or perhaps cold-blooded murder.

If it had been me, and I had wanted to ride by myself, I probably would have stayed on my own land or my friend's land.

It would have been seen as clear cut, and fully justified self-defense.

I wasn't looking for trouble and they didn't seem to be very keen on avoiding any.

[Tam Li Hua]

^ I'm pretty sure that if you shoot someone before they actually attack you, that that's considered murder and not self-defense. It could be easily proven that you didn't know -what- he was pulling out; he may have been taking out a camera or a pen.

Anyways, you obviously feel justified, so whatever; I still don't think you need a loaded weapon in order to generally stay out of trouble. :/

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

^ I'm pretty sure that if you shoot someone before they actually attack you, that that's considered murder and not self-defense. It could be easily proven that you didn't know -what- he was pulling out; he may have been taking out a camera or a pen.

Anyways, you obviously feel justified, so whatever; I still don't think you need a loaded weapon in order to generally stay out of trouble. :/

If you are in fear for your life and have no other option (Try and start a Utility Class ATV and kick the shifter up from Neutral to 3rd gear before a guy draws a handgun from his waistband,then takes aim and puts a hole in the back of your head,or before the driver in the truck could have slammed it into first Or Drive and ran you over the hill,I wasn't going out like that) then lethal force is the only viable choice.



Also,note that no shots were exchanged either way,I didn't have to fire because they realized they picked the wrong guy on the wrong day and left.