Do you ever stop and think to yourself

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Draconysius

Kelpmann? Are you trying to be funny? What he's said about goth becoming perverted in Japan has truth to it; Visual Kei is all the evidence one needs. I don't approve of the off-color comments made, but I think this let's-all-jump-on-the-PC-bandwagon crap is just as asinine.

Visual Kei isn't even Goth.
Also, it's not jumping-on-the-bandwagon if nobody likes him anyway. That's like saying the only reason people don't like Stalin is because other people don't like him. Not that I think of Helpmann as being much like Stalin. Stalin actually managed to do something.

[Malice In Wonderland]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

Visual Kei isn't even Goth.

Isn't Visual Kei much more closely related to 70's Glam rock?

Gah I quoted before you edited.

I think the main reason that people don't like Helpmann is the comments made to and about $haDe.

[Necrophagist]

Draconyius - no one implied Visual Kei is goth. Kelpmann implied that ' foreigners ' can't be goth.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Malice In Wonderland

Isn't Visual Kei much more closely related to 70's Glam rock?

Exactly. It has nothing to do with goth. It's mistaken for Goth and Metal by idiots who know nothing about it.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Malice In Wonderland

Isn't Visual Kei much more closely related to 70's Glam rock?

Gah I quoted before you edited.

I think the main reason that people don't like Helpmann is the comments made to and about $haDe.

What about the comments about women? And what about his inability to form a coherent opinion by himself?

[Malice In Wonderland]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

What about the comments about women? And what about his inability to form a coherent opinion by himself?

Oh?

I don't think I've seen any of his comments about women?
Whether he can form an opinion on his own or not, he's definitley taking the wrong opinions to use.

[Sanguine Mind]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

Exactly. It has nothing to do with goth. It's mistaken for Goth and Metal by idiots who know nothing about it.

Well, it's fashion style has small (very small) elements of goth and emo fashion.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Sanguine Mind

Well, it's fashion style has small (very small) elements of goth and emo fashion.

I kind of doubt that it has any emo fashion, sense X Japan formed a few years before the first wave of Emocore had even started.

[Draconysius]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

I kind of doubt that it has any emo fashion, sense X Japan formed a few years before the first wave of Emocore had even started.

So Visual Kei is to emo as deathrock is to goth? Can't say which is worse.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

I kind of doubt that it has any emo fashion, sense X Japan formed a few years before the first wave of Emocore had even started.

*since
messagetooshort

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Draconysius

So Visual Kei is to emo as deathrock is to goth? Can't say which is worse.

No. It has no fucking relation to emo. Scene may have connections to Kei, but emo doesn't.

[Draconysius]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

No. It has no fucking relation to emo. Scene may have connections to Kei, but emo doesn't.

Then it is like deathrock.

[a morbid curiosity]

There are so many things I hate about the argument dissolved into, but I'm honestly too depressed by the state of gothic.net now to contradict anyone.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Draconysius

Kelpmann? Are you trying to be funny? What he's said about goth becoming perverted in Japan has truth to it; Visual Kei is all the evidence one needs. I don't approve of the off-color comments made, but I think this let's-all-jump-on-the-PC-bandwagon crap is just as asinine.

I think viscus can tell you more about the actual goth scene in Japan, Visual Kei is far more rock and a lot of the fans actually do get annoyed when they are lumped together with goths, its just their fashion resembles somewhat a gothic taste. Its like saying since metalheads dress like goths they must be goths, you know?

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Saya

I think viscus can tell you more about the actual goth scene in Japan, Visual Kei is far more rock and a lot of the fans actually do get annoyed when they are lumped together with goths, its just their fashion resembles somewhat a gothic taste. Its like saying since metalheads dress like goths they must be goths, you know?

I think it's more that Goths dress like Metalheads. Not that it matters much.

[Necrophagist]

Yep.
messagetooshort

[Sir. Helpmann]

EVERYTHING cultural (not technological) that the Japan touches becomes a laughable farce and a joke of a parody which we can only point and laugh at.

Seriously, Japan is an example of American occupation on a country with a radically different cultural background.

It's vulgar that the Japanese have lost their own cultural outlook.

[Necrophagist]

They're trying to be Western, but they do keep in touch with their culture, unlike the UAE.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Sir. Helpmann

Seriously, Japan is an example of American occupation on a country with a radically different cultural background.

It's vulgar that the Japanese have lost their own cultural outlook.

I agree entirely.

[MollyMac]

So they can just be Japanese and not aspire to anything different without being vulgar?

Everything is change and adaptation, even pop culture.

But, hell, fuck progress.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by MollyMac

Everything is change and adaptation, even pop culture.

Japanese pop culture didn't pay attention to adaptation. It simply discarded all of the past and immersed itself in an unparalleled orgy of consumerism and materialism.
Not even America could compare itself to the fact that there's a consumerist subculture based around cellphones.

[MollyMac]

They did pay attention else they would have done it exactly the same was as everyone else and not according to their own mandates or wants.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Japanese pop culture didn't pay attention to adaptation. It simply discarded all of the past and immersed itself in an unparalleled orgy of consumerism and materialism.
Not even America could compare itself to the fact that there's a consumerist subculture based around cellphones.

What the hell are you talking about?

[$haDe]

Originally Posted by MollyMac

They did pay attention else they would have done it exactly the same was as everyone else and not according to their own mandates or wants.

Not exactly true, Molly

Well, in the past they did but by this time both Japanese's and Korean's (South) have 'evolved' significantly different, on their own, IF your 'culture' meant fashion. (It's important there, isn't it?)


They did not really pay attention to the 'western' culture as much as they did few years ago.

ps. But in my country, Lots of people do interested in western culture.

[viscus]

There are some fashion victims around, as there are in every country. Some look good, some look totally bizarre. But the vast majority of Japanese are relatively normal looking, and cell phone accessories aren't their reason for getting up in the morning.

Also, you all might be shocked to find out that there still is plenty of interest in traditional culture. For instance, the Awa Odori Festival draws more than a million people here to Tokushima every summer.