|
|
|
Whining This forum is for general whining. Please post all suicide threats, complaints about significant others, and statements about how unfair school is to this board. |
04-28-2010, 01:09 PM
|
#101
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,687
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
That's agnosticism, not atheism.
|
Don't listen to ape_descendant. He is to me as xjin is to you. Read what I said about this.
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 01:16 PM
|
#102
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smexyville, Colorado
Posts: 2,424
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
Don't listen to ape_descendant. He is to me as xjin is to you. Read what I said about this.
|
I'm sure he is... *raises an eyebrow*
Unlike xjin, I can relate well rounded ideas.. and unlike you.. I know how to clarify said ideas.
__________________
******
Be Kind
Last edited by ape descendant; 04-28-2010 at 01:19 PM.
Reason: Self-righteous blather...
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 02:06 PM
|
#103
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ∞ ∞ //▲▲\\ ∞ ∞
Posts: 4,618
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ape descendant
Unlike xjin, I can relate well rounded ideas..
|
I don't think so, princess.
__________________
rubber band balls
Bring Kontan Back
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 02:11 PM
|
#104
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ape descendant
I'm sure he is... *raises an eyebrow*
Unlike xjin, I can relate well rounded ideas.. and unlike you.. I know how to clarify said ideas.
|
Your existence is a pretty good argument against the case for a compassionate interventionist god.
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 02:20 PM
|
#105
|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 79
|
This seems like a good time to remind JCC about the concept of free will, of sin, purgatory and eternal damnation.
The christian churches has thought long and hard about how to explain the fact that the world isn't all peachy despite a good God that is both omnipresent and all powerful.
The man with the razor would probably claim that their explanations seem a little more complicated than what is ideal, but still.
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 02:22 PM
|
#106
|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ape descendant
Agnosticism is more along the lines of saying that if there is a god, such a being would be beyond our grasp and unknowable.
An atheist merely lacks a belief in a god or gods, and one is stil atheistic if one does not believe in god, but admits that one could not really know for sure.
I am in this camp. I lack a belief in a god or gods because there is no evidence for them. I do not say that I know for sure that god doesn't exist, and if there were good enough evidence of such a creature I would certainly change my mind.
I also think the same way about pixies and unicorns.
|
No, seriously, JCC is right. That's not ATHEISM.
a·the·ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm] - noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. (clickable link)
You can't be an Atheist if you simply lack a belief in a god.
You must actually deny that a god could exist.
.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!
As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.
Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 02:24 PM
|
#107
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ART
This seems like a good time to remind JCC about the concept of free will, of sin, purgatory and eternal damnation.
The christian churches has thought long and hard about how to explain the fact that the world isn't all peachy despite a good God that is both omnipresent and all powerful.
The man with the razor would probably claim that their explanations seem a little more complicated than what is ideal, but still.
|
Thank you for that, my comment was definitely born out of a misinterpretation of theism rather than facetious.
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 02:33 PM
|
#108
|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 79
|
Lets see. Belief and disbelief.
be·lief [bih-leef]
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.
dis·be·lief [dis-bi-leef]
–noun
1. the inability or refusal to believe or to accept something as true.
2. amazement; astonishment: We stared at the Taj Mahal in disbelief.
Nothing in these definitions make the one you quoted mean that the possibility of an existing deity must be denied for the conditions of atheism to be fulfilled.
Care to elaborate?
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 02:34 PM
|
#109
|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 79
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Thank you for that, my comment was definitely born out of a misinterpretation of theism rather than facetious.
|
Quite.
Plus, I am bored.
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 03:14 PM
|
#110
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,687
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ape descendant
and unlike you.. I know how to clarify said ideas.
|
Clear does not equate to dumbed-down. If you have trouble understanding what I say, you're too dense for me to bother with anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
No, seriously, JCC is right. That's not ATHEISM.
a·the·ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm] - noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. (clickable link)
You can't be an Atheist if you simply lack a belief in a god.
You must actually deny that a god could exist.
|
No shitty argument is complete without a dictionary definition.
Dictionaries are designed to assist people who don't know the meanings of words. They are not elaborate disquisitions on the nuances of a school of thought, and therefore often err on the side of succinctness. Wikipedia would actually serve you better.
No logic-driven atheist will assert that the absence of a creator is provable, only that it is uncorroborated by any evidence and therefore not a possibility worth considering.
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 03:18 PM
|
#111
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smexyville, Colorado
Posts: 2,424
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
|
Definition # 1 seems to refer to strong atheism
Definition # 2 seems to refer to weak athiesm
Strong atheism = Says, "There is no god."
Weak atheism = Lacks belief in god.
As far as the definition of Athiest goes, there are more than just one one in mirriam-webster.
To treat agnosticism, one can be a theistic or atheistic, agnostic. A theistic agnostic believes in a god but believes that one cannot know the nature of said god. An atheistic agnostic does not believe in a god, but believes that one may not know wether or not there is a god.
I got my information from Atheism: the case against god. It is written by George H. Smith, the book specifically treats atheism and establishes a realistic definition of atheism.
As far as weak and strong atheism go, here's a like to part of an epsiode of the Atheist Experience, that specifically treats it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuIwS37mcO0
__________________
******
Be Kind
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 03:28 PM
|
#112
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,932
|
Agnosticism deals with whether we can know something or not. Any scientist is an agnostic because science assumes that anything discoverable is also falsifiable and not just absolute truth.
Saying one is an agnostic regarding god is stupid because it didn't answer anything. There is a world of difference between "we can't know but obviously I'm not going to go about my life believing in something unprovable" and "we can't know so I will believe for shits and giggles"
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly
You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
|
real classy
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 03:39 PM
|
#113
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smexyville, Colorado
Posts: 2,424
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
Clear does not equate to dumbed-down. If you have trouble understanding what I say, you're too dense for me to bother with anyway.
|
Clarifying definitions in an argument or debate is necessary. Its not dumbing anything down but rather establishing exactly what is meant when a certain word is said.
I never said anything about having trouble understanding you, and rather enjoyed your head-flower analogy.
And I guess I shall have to learn to end my sarcastic remarks with "/sarcasm" as such highly trained, super intelligent minds such as yours are often misled by the use of the winky face. /sarcasm
__________________
******
Be Kind
Last edited by ape descendant; 04-28-2010 at 03:40 PM.
Reason: editing is fun!!
|
|
|
04-29-2010, 10:24 AM
|
#114
|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
No shitty argument is complete without a dictionary definition.
Dictionaries are designed to assist people who don't know the meanings of words. They are not elaborate disquisitions on the nuances of a school of thought, and therefore often err on the side of succinctness. Wikipedia would actually serve you better.
No logic-driven atheist will assert that the absence of a creator is provable, only that it is uncorroborated by any evidence and therefore not a possibility worth considering.
|
Point taken, and well made. Thank you for the correction.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!
As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.
Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
|
|
|
04-29-2010, 10:35 AM
|
#115
|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Um, lower, oh yeah, uh, uh ... YES THERE!
Posts: 6,738
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ape descendant
Definition # 1 seems to refer to strong atheism
Definition # 2 seems to refer to weak athiesm
Strong atheism = Says, "There is no god."
Weak atheism = Lacks belief in god.
As far as the definition of Athiest goes, there are more than just one one in mirriam-webster.
To treat agnosticism, one can be a theistic or atheistic, agnostic. A theistic agnostic believes in a god but believes that one cannot know the nature of said god. An atheistic agnostic does not believe in a god, but believes that one may not know wether or not there is a god.
I got my information from Atheism: the case against god. It is written by George H. Smith, the book specifically treats atheism and establishes a realistic definition of atheism.
As far as weak and strong atheism go, here's a like to part of an epsiode of the Atheist Experience, that specifically treats it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuIwS37mcO0
|
Well, my opinion is largely informed by books such as "A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam" by Karen Armstrong. (Figured I'd drop a book reference in as well.)
However, as gothicusmaximus has correctly pointed out, it is a crappy discussion and I took a weak shortcut in posting one dictionary definition that served my needs. Mea culpa.
__________________
Lead me not into temptation ... follow me, I know a shortcut!
As the poets have mournfully sung,
death takes the innocent young,
the rolling in money,
the screamingly funny,
and those who are very well hung.
Your days are numbered - 26,280 per person on average - 2,000,000,000 heartbeats ... tick, tick, tick
|
|
|
04-29-2010, 10:37 AM
|
#116
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ∞ ∞ //▲▲\\ ∞ ∞
Posts: 4,618
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
Mea culpa.
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRA2Zv-ZvEw
Sorry had to post it.
__________________
rubber band balls
Bring Kontan Back
|
|
|
04-29-2010, 11:30 PM
|
#117
|
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius
Posts: 1,750
|
I had always thought Atheism means without religion as a whole.
__________________
Because before too long there'll be nothing left alive, not a creature on the land or sea, a bird in the sky. They'll be shot, harpooned, eaten, and hunted too much, vivisected by the clever men who prove that there's no such things as a fair world with live and let live. The Royal family go hunting, what an example to give to the people they lead and that don't include me, I've seen enough pain and torture of those who can't speak...
- Tough Shit, Mickey by Conflict
|
|
|
04-30-2010, 10:31 PM
|
#118
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Smexyville, Colorado
Posts: 2,424
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger
|
Hmm I'll have to check that out some time. Thank you.
__________________
******
Be Kind
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:41 AM.
|
|