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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 02-07-2006, 05:46 PM   #126
Empty_Purple_Stars
 
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Why does there have to be a name, an attachment, an umbrella?

Seriously.

Why do we as a culture feel the need to associate ourselve with a 'type' of group. What exactly does that "identity" do for us?

I'm almost 34 and I have seen what's "Goth" or "Not" change a dozen times or more. It doesn't mean shit.

Why isn't simply being who we are, (whatever that fucking means), enough?

Why do we 'need' the safety blanket?

How does that distance us in any way from the "Jocks" or the "Preps" ?


It friggin doesn't
.

.

It makes us all sheep.

Bleating sadly in the dark for a reason to exist.

Ignoring the fact that they themselves, are the reason they exist.

It really just doesn't matter. Doesn't anyone see that?

Le Sigh.

Last edited by Empty_Purple_Stars; 02-07-2006 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:24 PM   #127
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Even if we choose not to label ourselves, we are still a subculture and, as such, will eventually be named by someone else. I simply would rather replace the current favorite "Goth" with something else.

The name would have to be something far removed from "jock" or "prep"-- closer to the name of an artistic movement, which, as far as I'm concerned, is what my version of the subculture represents.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:40 PM   #128
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Neo-Bohemians
Dark-Bohemians
Children of the Revolution
your pick
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:42 AM   #129
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Fuck re-naming anything!

I am what I am.
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:02 AM   #130
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A-Fucking-Men!!

Although now we sound like Popeye.

o.O
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Old 02-08-2006, 03:56 PM   #131
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Nice!
Nah, you don't sound like Popeye, I liked it
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Quote:
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:41 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
Uhh. Pathogen?

I've always enjoyed your contributions before..

However, the above statement from you was a bit offensive.

Our forum is actually chock full of activists, for various causes.

Myself Included.

Where exactly did that observation come from, if I may ask..
E_P_S & XNGUELA: 2 words: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Most of the Gothics I've met for the past decade or so seem to embrace the stereotypes that everyone else in society has of Gothics. Besides supposedly being sad all the time, Gothics supposedly don't care about what happens politically; dismiss politics as petty & boring; believe that current events don't concern them, so why should they care; that "the outside world will take care of itself". If the events in the U.$. the past 6 years should tell you, the outside world won't take care of itself, especially when the Texas Hangman in the White House [by way of his associates/Cabinet appointees, the Project for a New Amerikkkan Century] used 2 fraudulent national elections to acquire/stay in power. Conversely, every Gothic I've run into who isn't apathetic was a Demokkkrat, 1 of 2 major U.$. Capitalist political parties. Compared to Gothic Demokkkrats & apathetic Goths, I feel like I'm an anomaly in our scene [& on messageboards like this one] because I chose to be neither. Politically, I'm the same person I've always been since my 20s: An Anarchist. And I get hella dissed for it. Like any activist, I care about the world I live in & wish to see it still intact when I'm old & gray. For the past 3 years, I've plugged myself into various social-justice-orgs & anti-authoritarian collectives & attended numberous protests for different causes. If my last post offended anyone--including you 2--then I APOLOGISE. I had no idea that anyone else here did any actvism until you 2 brought it up. By the way, Xnguela: I had no idea that Vagina Monologues did fundraising for domestic violence prevention. That's new to me, too.
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:08 PM   #133
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I would like to think we would all get along in person..

One of these days I'm going to come up with a way to get us all together to find out for sure..




I'm too weary to really debate the issue with you in detail tonight, Pathogen. So excuse me if I don't elaborate to the degree I normally would.

I will say that I disagree with your observation regarding a general state of Apathy in the "Gothic" community in regards to Political issues.

Having been in the Goth scene myself since the early 1980's, I have seen many changes and evolutions within the scene over the years.

I don't think it's fair to say that Goths take pride in not being concerned about the events around them in the world.

The Gothic community is far too diverse for that to be true anymore.

Today there are are Docters, Lawyers, Artists, Grant Writers, Therapists, Psychologists, Plumbers, Contractors, Paralegals, Real Estate Agents etc. etc. to be found in every Goth community, World Wide.

We are not limited anymore, to angsty teenagers who listen to the Smiths and sports two freshly etched scars on her wrists with pride as a banner of the stereotypical Goth teen.

We have evolved as a Subculture. And our Demographics have evolved as well.

Personally I think we all outgrew the Goth stereotype Eons ago, but thats another debate for another night.

Yawn.

*waves*
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Old 02-09-2006, 07:51 AM   #134
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The simple answer is, there are no goth politics. Gothic subculture is the embrace of apathy. It means to give two shits about anything. If anything, a gothic view of politics would be much like a nihlistic view of life.

But, if you look at what one would possibly embody as far as having to be forced into a box and made to choose from column a or b without the option of 'none of the above', goth would be liberal. Why? Because bi-sexual cross dressing lads in eyeliner dancing to bauhaus with their pierced sexually expresive partners do not get invited to participate in conservative politics.
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Old 02-09-2006, 08:02 AM   #135
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I thought we just established that 'goth' no longer embodies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
bi-sexual cross dressing lads in eyeliner dancing to bauhaus with their pierced sexually expresive partners
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Old 02-09-2006, 08:39 PM   #136
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Well, I myself would like to meet you all, if you would give me a hug
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"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.

I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:30 AM   #137
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I would very much like to meet you all. My little town, i'm basically the only person who could be described as a counter-culture. Oh, and just to get my two cents in the label Dark-Bohemians, as far as labels go, really kicks ass.
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:07 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blushing Heliophobe
I thought we just established that 'goth' no longer embodies...
Whether it embodies it or not, you will be hard pressed to find a goth club without the aforementioned.
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:21 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Whether it embodies it or not, you will be hard pressed to find a goth club without the aforementioned
which is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
bi-sexual cross dressing lads in eyeliner dancing to bauhaus with their pierced sexually expresive partners
Okay. Since there is no scene where I live, I can't call you bs on that one personally.

But seriously, how you act in a club doesn't dictate your political associations.

Besides - even though the left tends to be a bit more accepting of alternative lifestyle, I don't think they'd be pleased to see Hillary wearing fishnets, eyeliner, macking on a female and dancing to Bauhaus during her (possible) presidential campaign.

Prejudice in one's outlook isn't dictated exclusively by your political affiliations.
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Old 02-10-2006, 08:22 AM   #140
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He's telling the truth about the lads in eyeliner with their bf/gf.

They're half the people that ask me where I buy my clothes. I make most of what I go out in, though.

But I think it's sheer folly to assume that goths would automatically fall into the 'liberal' category. Alot probably would. Not all.


Sternny, comparing Ireland to America again? That's like comparing Chahuahuas to Newfoundlands.
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Old 02-10-2006, 08:24 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars
A-Fucking-Men!!

Although now we sound like Popeye.

o.O

Well, I didn't say " I yam what I yam".


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Old 02-10-2006, 12:23 PM   #142
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I would just like to say one other thing, Sternn, you said that the gothic subculture is the embrace of apathey. I really have to disagree. http://blood-dance.net/goth/grant.html, I just wanted to point out this site, mostly because I dont really think being gothic is embracing apathey anymore. I use anymore becuase I dont know if it ever was, I wasn't alive when this first came around.
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:11 AM   #143
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Wolfie - I find it hard to believe people would support an administration who actively tries to belittle their lifestyle, not to mention the direct attacks on all alternative 'non-conservative lifestyles'. Plus the fact the repubs support people like Falwell and of course Roberson, a person friend of the bush family. A man who said AIDS was the cure for gays.

Do you think he supports men in fishnets and eyeliner? And if he is a close personal friend of bush, I mean, he wrote 'The New World Order', a book bush 1 not only took to heart but gave speeches about and tailored his administration to match, doesn't sound to alternative friendly.

Lacky - Some chick writes one page on an obscure website, so goths are no longer apathetic? I have been running events in no less than 3 countries for almost 15 years now. I could go into name dropping and what not, but my point is I have watched lot of stuff on the scene come and go. The one thing thats always there is apathy. Being goth means you give to shits about politics and what not. You might care, but guess what? Hit your local goth club or weekly g/i event and bring yerself a clipboard and try and take names for some cause. Watch the reaction you get. Don't take my word for it, try it.
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:18 AM   #144
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I find it hard to believe that someone who is debating a political issue would make the blaring assumption that any member of a certain party must and will endorse another member of that same party.

Just because someone's conservative it doesn't make them Republican, just because someone's Republican doesn't make them support Bush, just because they support Bush doesn't mean they support Crazy Pat Robertson.

I am not even a Republican so why, when you post, am I always compelled to defend them?

*sigh*
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Old 02-14-2006, 08:09 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blushing Heliophobe
I find it hard to believe that someone who is debating a political issue would make the blaring assumption that any member of a certain party must and will endorse another member of that same party.

Not saying they MUST endorse anything. People CAN be whatever they want, tis their right sure. I'm just saying you don't see many jews waving swasatikas at pro-nazi rallys, many blacks supporting the KKK, and goth kids in the crowd at young republican conventions.
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Old 03-11-2006, 03:30 AM   #146
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i had some Absinthe in Paris last March-- and it was like gold bars to fort knox to my senses --
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Old 03-11-2006, 04:30 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Gothic subculture is the embrace of apathy. It means to give two shits about anything.
Really? Why, I could have sworn that was nihilism... Why, while we're in the process of stereotyping, gothic subculture is also about eyeliner and fishnets, mesh shirts and clunky boots. Satan generally gets called upon periodically to DJ at clubs, but he's usually a tad bit too busy to do much else. So there, now that we've both asserted our views of what it is to be goth...

Since when was goth about apathy? Apathy regarding...? Society's opinions? The true embrace of apathy is best represented by a far more mainstream cultural niche:

The couch potato.

With brain activity less than that of a state of rest, the couch potato can lose brain cells at an accelerated rate compared to other humans, thusly allowing for peak apathetic disposition towards any number of topics. Apathy is sheerly bliss.

The gothic subculture tends to turn more away from apathy and more closely resembles a hedonistic culture in its intended (not its assumed) form.
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Old 03-11-2006, 04:33 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Do you think he supports men in fishnets and eyeliner?
And what kind of world would we be living in without men in fishnets and eyeliner?

I shudder to imagine such a world!

*shudder*

Oh darn, my imagination slipped.
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Old 03-11-2006, 04:42 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Hit your local goth club or weekly g/i event and bring yerself a clipboard and try and take names for some cause. Watch the reaction you get. Don't take my word for it, try it.
Because lord knows that if I went into a regular club and tried to do the very same thing, a far greater proportion of people at that club would jump at the opportunity to sign for my cause.

You are dropping that idea like it's unique to goth. Come on. Apathy is common among any number of people. In fact, if you want to get really down and dirty, there are a number of conservatives who are quite apathetic. Drop a cause regarding a liberal agenda and BAM, there's apathy. And boy, sure as there are pubic hair located up-some from my member, it works the same way regarding the conservative agenda with the liberal.

If you went into a goth club with the agenda of "The government is trying to kill off all goths, because of _______. Sign this so you don't get killed." Any number of them will almost certainly sign the petition, assuming they aren't depressed at the time and feeling imbued with the illogic that it would benefit society for an entire culture to be wiped off of the face of the earth, but that's another matter entirely.

What I'm getting at is that apathy is not common to all sectors of the gothic subculture, not even in the mainstream where many people will voice the fact that they are feeling rather "apathetic" and like they just "don't generally care." I think it's wonderful that your experience in "no less than three countries" has served you well over those past fifteen years, but fortunately for variations within a subculture on the basis of the societies in which they develop, not everyone and everything will reflect your experiences within one specific environment, particularly not a club.

I do not know a single soul that goes to a club to get revved up for a political agenda and any number of social causes. In fact, when I go out, it's to have a good time. Fuck the world for the moment until I can appreciate my escape and settle back into reality... later. The displacement of interest and concern in the short term does not reflect a general view for the long term. It's ignorant to believe that such things hold true in any given environment.
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Old 03-12-2006, 11:18 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disfunction
I do not know a single soul that goes to a club to get revved up for a political agenda and any number of social causes. In fact, when I go out, it's to have a good time. Fuck the world for the moment until I can appreciate my escape and settle back into reality... later. The displacement of interest and concern in the short term does not reflect a general view for the long term. It's ignorant to believe that such things hold true in any given environment.


Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I've been saying the same thing for months now in regard to the "Goths are too Apathetic to care about social issues" diatribe that's been bantered about here lately.

Huzzah!!

*grabs your bum in celebration*
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